stonecoldbass Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Hey peeps, Here's an interesting article I stumbled across in tinterweb. Bottom line? Tone is in your hands. [url="http://digital.premierguitar.com/premierguitar/200809/?folio=118"]Bass Tone[/url] Enjoy! craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 I haven't read the article yet, but I've always subscribed to the theory that tone comes from the player and not the bass! Cheers for the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Yep, too many videos of players like Jaco playing any old bass and sounding 100% like themselves! Will take a look now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Really good article thanks and a great magazine too! Pleasantly surprised it's available to read online as well.... I agree with the premise that your bass tone starts with your hands; Carlos Santana said that years ago.. But the other technical stuff was fascinating as well though how seriously one can take the idea of cables working one way I'm not sure. The bit about e.q. ing your bass to compliment the pitch of the drummer's bass drum is definitely something worth remembering as that's exactly what happens when mixing bass & drums in a studio setting. The Radial DI box mentioned in the article sounds great but I would imagine it's not cheap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 I liked a couple of the ideas in the article, especially the comment from Aguilar's owner and how they're interested in 'completing the tonal relationship between the bass and the amplification. I was also taken by the idea of a player shaping their eq according to the sound of the bass drum. Not sure how it'd work in practice as I'd always want my own individual sound and not to 'blend in' with the drums so much, but it was a very interesting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Your hands certainly control the tools as is the case for any other craftsman but I still maintain you'll never get a p bass to sound like an alembic any more than you'll get a V-shaped chisel to carve like a round shape. The technical stuff was interesting though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringbassist Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='265997' date='Aug 19 2008, 11:58 PM']Your hands certainly control the tools as is the case for any other craftsman but I still maintain you'll never get a p bass to sound like an alembic any more than you'll get a V-shaped chisel to carve like a round shape. The technical stuff was interesting though.[/quote] Totally agree. You may sound like you playing whatever bass, but the basses will all sound like whatever they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggydolphinboy Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 [quote name='6stringbassist' post='266003' date='Aug 20 2008, 12:09 AM']Totally agree. You may sound like you playing whatever bass, but the basses will all sound like whatever they are.[/quote] yeah had rehersals last night took my full trace stack, 5 string warwick dolphin, 4 string usa jazz bass plus :-( this bass just sounded naff next to my warwick. so gonna learn the funk set for sunday on my 5 warwick and contemplate selling/adding set of jazz bartolinis to my jazz.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 It's always down to the player for me, interesting read though. Letting the wood breathe......if this is true, then shouldn't we all have bare natural wood finishes for our basses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 the guy says 'acoustical', not 'acoustic'. therefore i'm not reading his article... yours 'very grumpy in the morning' ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Can't read the article as my work PC blocks the link. As an electrical bass player, I acknowledge the relationship between a piece of kit and your sound but we have to remember that we use our ears to determine the sound we want and adjust our gear accordingly. Unless we get new ears, our sound is always going to be in the ball park of what they tell us is the best sound we can get. ANd our execution of ideas/phrases will be borderline the same whatever gear we have. There is a lovely story dating back to when Van Halen were supporting Ted Nugent in the early days and TN wanted to know the secret of Eddie Van Halen's sound. So he tried his gear out and sounded like ..... Ted Nugent!!! Ref: eqing the bass vd bass drum. That may apply in rock etc but, in jazz, you are better off eqing against the ride cymbal as it can kill your sound if you don't get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='266065' date='Aug 20 2008, 08:43 AM']There is a lovely story dating back to when Van Halen were supporting Ted Nugent in the early days and TN wanted to know the secret of Eddie Van Halen's sound. So he tried his gear out and sounded like ..... Ted Nugent!!! Ref: eqing the bass vd bass drum. That may apply in rock etc but, in jazz, you are better off eqing against the ride cymbal as it can kill your sound if you don't get it right.[/quote] Good story! Doesn't matter what type of music you play, there is always a sonic relationship between the different instruments in a band setting which can be ruined by poor use of e.q. or improved by sensitive use of e.q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_the_bassist Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='266106' date='Aug 20 2008, 10:10 AM']Good story! Doesn't matter what type of music you play, there is always a sonic relationship between the different instruments in a band setting which can be ruined by poor use of e.q. or improved by sensitive use of e.q.[/quote] ok, I kinda get what's being said about EQing bass to the kickdrum (I understand that they're there to compliment each other) but does that mean trying to make your bass sound like the kick drum (e.g. kinda boomy/wooly in the case of my regular drummer) or to compliment it, like the way the snare and a tom sound when hit together? Edited August 20, 2008 by phil_the_bassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 The bass shouldn't sound like the kick but it should fit the vibe - when they hit together they should be coherent but distinct. An interesting case of this that I've found is that my new bass naturally has a thicker warmer fatter sound than my old one which was more punchy and midrangey. On our last studio recording when I was using my old bass my drummer used his smaller kick drum with a typical thick and slightly woolly sound, like that you might hear on many 70s rock and funk recordings. However at our last gig he was using his vistalite kit with 26" kick drum with that huge fast sound like Bonham's on Physical Graffiti and the slam and attack of that fitted so well with the fatter rounder sound of my new bass. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 [quote name='6stringbassist' post='266003' date='Aug 20 2008, 12:09 AM']Totally agree. You may sound like you playing whatever bass, but the basses will all sound like whatever they are.[/quote] +1. I reckon a lot of it is in the fingers but imagine Jamerson on a Stingray w/roundwounds or Mark King on a Hofner Violin w/flatwounds. Their style would still be there but it would sound a bit odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 [quote name='stingrayfan' post='266147' date='Aug 20 2008, 10:51 AM']+1. I reckon a lot of it is in the fingers but imagine Jamerson on a Stingray w/roundwounds or Mark King on a Hofner Violin w/flatwounds. Their style would still be there but it would sound a bit odd.[/quote] I bet Jamerson would stick a wodge of foam under the strings at the bridge to deaden them and sound hardly any different, certainly in the context of the recording. Mark King would be a different matter, but he might end up sounding cool for once! Any given instrument/processing/amplification system has a range of sounds it can cover and if you know how to use it then you should be able to always get your tone assuming it is within that range. The vast majority of bass sounds can be achieved closely enough with the vast majority of quality systems. Personally I like to use a bass/rig that has a huge tonal range and then my ears/hands can get on with intuitively sorting out the tone. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 [quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='266122' date='Aug 20 2008, 10:25 AM']ok, I kinda get what's being said about EQing bass to the kickdrum (I understand that they're there to compliment each other) but does that mean trying to make your bass sound like the kick drum (e.g. kinda boomy/wooly in the case of my regular drummer) or to compliment it, like the way the snare and a tom sound when hit together? [/quote] No, it's not about making the kick drum and the bass sound the same, it's about making sure that they work well together. In simple terms, if the kick drum is tuned really tight and punchy then it's better to e.q. the bass guitar frequencies lower to provide the warmth and low end.. And vice-versa of course.. Obviously, there's more too it than that but it's about these important elements in the rhythm section working together in a complimentary way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracer Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 The stuff about moisture in the wood is interesting, as I was talking to one of the guys from Soundslive recently who is a real Stingray fan and he said that he could tell how good the tone was going to be on a batch of 'Rays by seeing how heavy they felt. If they were seemed weighty then the wood wasn't dried out and the tone wouldn't be as good. I've got to admit that I kinda discounted it as voodoo at the time, but now I'm beginning to wonder : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 [quote name='Tracer' post='266250' date='Aug 20 2008, 01:01 PM']he said that he could tell how good the tone was going to be on a batch of 'Rays by seeing how heavy they felt. If they were seemed weighty then the wood wasn't dried out and the tone wouldn't be as good.[/quote] I'm wondering how he could tell the difference between dense wood and moist wood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_the_bassist Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='266180' date='Aug 20 2008, 11:31 AM']No, it's not about making the kick drum and the bass sound the same, it's about making sure that they work well together. In simple terms, if the kick drum is tuned really tight and punchy then it's better to e.q. the bass guitar frequencies lower to provide the warmth and low end.. And vice-versa of course.. Obviously, there's more too it than that but it's about these important elements in the rhythm section working together in a complimentary way.[/quote] That's alright then! Glad i hadn't got the wrong end of the stick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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