Is the live scene dying?

[DaytonaRik]

We're turning gigs away in the Derby area as our drummer can't commit to more than the current workload which is a real shame!

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='DaytonaRik' timestamp='1427812251' post='2734528']
We're turning gigs away in the Derby area as our drummer can't commit to more than the current workload which is a real shame!
[/quote]

Interesting...are these gigs generally well attended? We (Cherry White) played Derby at the beginning of February and the singer from Thunderous Jones, who invited us up for the gig, told us that they hardly bother to play around Derby because nobody seems to bother coming out for live music! It was the first time we'd played Derby, so we knew very little about the local scene, and took his word for it - but it sounds like your experience is a bit different from his.

[lou24d53]

'Promoters' ( ) have a lot to answer for as well...I've just tried to get my band booked onto a well known Glasgow venue this afternoon and this is the response I got back.........

[i]On behalf of ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I would like to offer Bone Island a slot on the over 18‘s bill of Friday 8th May 2015. The show will be a local act showcase with running order being decided on the night by advance ticket sales. Face value of tickets will be £6.50 we must receive £4.50 from each ticket sold from your allocation and all unsold tickets must be returned. *Low ticket sales might result in the band not being asked back*

If accepted please answer all questions below…

How many tickets would you like printed?
What is your contact number?
What is the link to your Facebook page?
What your username on twitter?
What is your set up?
What backline are you bringing?
What backline are you willing to share?
Have you read and understood all of this email?

If accepted you please make sure:-

You do NOT play any show in Glasgow at least 4 weeks either side of date above.
You do NOT have any members under the age of 18 years old. (Unless show is over 14s)
You pick your tickets up within 5 days of being notified that they are ready for collection.
You arrange backline share with the other bands on the bill as backline including drum kit will not be provided.

The show will not be confirmed until these stipulations are agreed and all above questions have been answered.[/i]


So basically there is a ticket sale split of 30% to the band and 70% to the venue, we are not allowed to play any gigs in Glasgow for two months - a month either side of the date - and we are expected to provide full backline agreed between all bands on the bill...erm, where do I sign??!

[icastle]

The days of just going into any pub and walking out with a gig half an hour later are gone.

Pubs are there to make a profit and the recent pub closures have essentially 'weeded out' landlords that weren't able to maintain, or diversify to attract, a decent profit margin.

The landlords/landladies who are left are far more business orientated and it's up to us to persuade them that they're going to make a profit if we want to play there.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='lou24d53' timestamp='1427813259' post='2734539']
[i]If accepted you please make sure:-

You do NOT play any show in Glasgow at least 4 weeks either side of date above.
You do NOT have any members under the age of 18 years old. (Unless show is over 14s)
You pick your tickets up within 5 days of being notified that they are ready for collection.
You arrange backline share with the other bands on the bill as backline including drum kit will not be provided.

The show will not be confirmed until these stipulations are agreed and all above questions have been answered.[/i]


So basically there is a ticket sale split of 30% to the band and 70% to the venue, we are not allowed to play any gigs in Glasgow for two months - a month either side of the date - and we are expected to provide full backline agreed between all bands on the bill...erm, where do I sign??!
[/quote]

Wow. Yeah, that's basically got all the hallmarks of a "pay to play" gig (which, incidentally, the MU is dead against; see http://www.worknotplay.co.uk/). The clause about not playing the same area within a certain timeframe I'd normally argue was common sense, but normally it's two weeks, or "not in the same month" - four weeks either side of that date seems to be extracting the micturate somewhat!

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1427814146' post='2734553']
The clause about not playing the same area within a certain timeframe I'd normally argue was common sense, but normally it's two weeks, or "not in the same month".
[/quote]

Never been convinced by this argument, unless you define "area" very tightly as in within 400 yards or something.

If your band is known and liked at all the music venues within easy range of the one you're pitching to, then your band is far more likely to bring a following which is exactly what most venues want.

If your band is known and disliked at all the music venues within easy range of the one you're pitching to, then it hardly matters anyway.

[neepheid]

[quote name='lou24d53' timestamp='1427813259' post='2734539']
'Promoters' ( ) have a lot to answer for as well...I've just tried to get my band booked onto a well known Glasgow venue this afternoon and this is the response I got back.........

[i]On behalf of ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I would like to offer Bone Island a slot on the over 18‘s bill of Friday 8th May 2015. The show will be a local act showcase with running order being decided on the night by advance ticket sales. Face value of tickets will be £6.50 we must receive £4.50 from each ticket sold from your allocation and all unsold tickets must be returned. *Low ticket sales might result in the band not being asked back*

If accepted please answer all questions below…

How many tickets would you like printed?
What is your contact number?
What is the link to your Facebook page?
What your username on twitter?
What is your set up?
What backline are you bringing?
What backline are you willing to share?
Have you read and understood all of this email?

If accepted you please make sure:-

You do NOT play any show in Glasgow at least 4 weeks either side of date above.
You do NOT have any members under the age of 18 years old. (Unless show is over 14s)
You pick your tickets up within 5 days of being notified that they are ready for collection.
You arrange backline share with the other bands on the bill as backline including drum kit will not be provided.

The show will not be confirmed until these stipulations are agreed and all above questions have been answered.[/i]


So basically there is a ticket sale split of 30% to the band and 70% to the venue, we are not allowed to play any gigs in Glasgow for two months - a month either side of the date - and we are expected to provide full backline agreed between all bands on the bill...erm, where do I sign??!
[/quote]

What a load of crap. If you don't want to say which venue it is publicly, would you be so kind as to PM me the details? I'm trying to get gigs for my band and it's just as useful to know where to avoid as it is to know where to go.

Cheers

[lou24d53]

Will do neepheid...when I politely but firmly turned it down, the promoter replied back to me asking which parts I found to be unacceptable?!

[Japhet]

I blame Simon bloody Cowell for the continuing demise of music venues and live music. Millions of people who used to have a life now find themselves glued to the sofa every Saturday night. I also blame him for global warming, the pain in my left knee and the rise in the price of fish fingers. Bastard!

[grandad]

Stopped last year after 10+ years of weekly gigging.

Most work came from the working man's clubs in the Black Country where the age of the members suited our setlist - £150/300. Always a good relaxed show.

A few pubs which varied in quality from great music venue to a dump - £150/300.

A few weddings/functions usually at well run venues - £600+. Best bib and tucker on and always made the effort to give a polished and extended evening's entertainment.

A few local summer festivals for charity.

As gigs started to become thin on the ground over the last couple of years and we got older our gear became heavier and the day following a gig was lost in sleep we decided to pack it in. And then the offer's started to come thick and fast and so we did a number of 'final' gigs. The last 2 were well paid functions at the Chateau Impeney, Droitwitch, and the function room at Walsall FC. From the last one we were asked to take a booking 6 months in advance for a National Association annual gala. We ducked on that and retired.

A lot of the venues we discovered had taken to hiring Karaoke at 1/2 the cost. Personally I find them visually boring after a few numbers & musically very 'samey' as you sit through the evening to the extent that it becomes almost background music to conversation. But the venue pays less and the solo singer takes home more money sometimes for getting the audience to join in and do 1/2 the work. I suppose it's a different type of evening's entertainment that some folks like.

I've still got my "KEEP MUSIC LIVE STICKERS" on my cases from years ago so the problem isn't new. And after all my chatter I don't have a solution.

[leschirons]

Out here, the use of Karaoke, D.J.s or singer with backing trax doesn't really happen. The venues I know tend to go for open mic nights or a duo to cut down on the cost of entertainment as they still prefer live entertainment.

Generally, we play as much as we want these days albeit that it may be less than some of you would like to gig but it is our choice due to

a; My age and other musical commitments
b; The guitarists work schedule
c; The singer's other musical commitments
d; The drummer's other musical commitments

We'll never get less than 90€ each for local gigs but sometimes an awful lot more if it's a function. Along with the duo thing I do, a few one-off gigs and a the odd dep, I'll probably play 40 gigs this year which quite frankly is far too many for me these days. The other bands also seem to do well re number of gigs but some do go out cheap. We've been asked if we can match other's cheaper fees but we always refuse although we have no problem doing a freebee for a good cause.

So I guess it's quite healthy here. Of course, venues close but it seems that just as many open up, even if it's only for 2 or 3 years.

I get the impression that the French will never tire of live music and will always support it.

[spacey]

Tale of two pubs, one established music venue but refuses to pay over £150 usually £120 and on a weekend has "wet rock covers" same songs, week in week out, just the faces change, now down to about ten punters if that.

New venue opened, out of town, off beaten track but pays the money £350-£500 league and has only the best of the best , been open six months, it is literally get your backside in and stay in at 7 O-clock before the bouncers shut the main doors, 8 would be pushing it to get in, 8 bar staff, till rings every gig, full friday, Saturday and Sunday Lunch .

It can be done, you just need a good Business head and know to pay for a good product.

Edited March 31, 2015 by spacey

[blue]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1427801304' post='2734338']


Not mine.....gigs when we want them in our neck of the woods
[/quote]

What's different about your neck of the woods? Everybody else is struggling for gigs.

Blue

[Marvin]

From a punter's perspective, I'd say live music is struggling to appeal to me. I don't go and watch covers bands or tributes generally and the original bands on offer just aren't doing it for me. Most of the artists and bands I'm listening to are usually from the US and don't gig over here...even if they did they don't gig within an 8 hour round trip to see them.

[DaytonaRik]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1427812960' post='2734534']


Interesting...are these gigs generally well attended? We (Cherry White) played Derby at the beginning of February and the singer from Thunderous Jones, who invited us up for the gig, told us that they hardly bother to play around Derby because nobody seems to bother coming out for live music! It was the first time we'd played Derby, so we knew very little about the local scene, and took his word for it - but it sounds like your experience is a bit different from his.
[/quote]

Different markets I guess...ours is the pub crowd and usually within a 10 mile radius of the City centre. Usually pretty well attended - certainly no reason to complain

[neepheid]

[quote name='lou24d53' timestamp='1427815107' post='2734572']
Will do neepheid...when I politely but firmly turned it down, the promoter replied back to me asking which parts I found to be unacceptable?!
[/quote]

Where to start? Mostly the doing of the promoter's job for them, I guess.

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1427828316' post='2734834']
What's different about your neck of the woods? Everybody else is struggling for gigs.

Blue
[/quote]

Wouldn't say that down here...plenty of gigs around to be had,
It depends if you want them. There are no pubs we couldn't get in
if we wanted to... and in the winter we shut down to about 2 gigs per month
by choice. Once the spring kicks in and we are into early May we
stop doing pub gigs on a saturday as we leave that free for Party and Festival dates.

[Norris]

To be fair to a lot of landlords the band budget is often set by the breweries. There have been a few times that landlords have been desperate to have us on but can't afford to. We won't go below a certain amount - the guitarist plays for a living.

[Bassjon]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1427829253' post='2734849']
From a punter's perspective, I'd say live music is struggling to appeal to me. I don't go and watch covers bands or tributes generally and the original bands on offer just aren't doing it for me. Most of the artists and bands I'm listening to are usually from the US and don't gig over here...even if they did they don't gig within an 8 hour round trip to see them.
[/quote]

Thats the problem - live bands just arent appealing to people anymore. Why go to a gig and watch guys playing instruments with a limited repertoire when you can go to a karaoke/disco and have exactly the songs you want pumped out non-stop all night? Can't blame people for not wanting to go to a band when the alternative is cheaper and gives you exactly what you want.

[JTUK]

Which is the band's fault, IMO.
People will go out for the right entertainment but sometimes we don't help ourselves.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1427829253' post='2734849']
From a punter's perspective, I'd say live music is struggling to appeal to me. I don't go and watch covers bands or tributes generally and the original bands on offer just aren't doing it for me. Most of the artists and bands I'm listening to are usually from the US and don't gig over here...even if they did they don't gig within an 8 hour round trip to see them.
[/quote]

At the risk of coming across as unsympathetic, think if you live somewhere "off the beaten track" then you really can't expect to be well served by live music and especially so if your tastes run mainly to bands from the US.

I know because I spent a year living somewhere like that in the late 70s. During that time there were a grand total of 8 gigs locally by known touring bands of which only 1 was a band that I really wanted to see. Most tours didn't come any further west than Cardiff which meant either getting the train (expensive and you ended up spending the night on the station platform as there were no trains back after the gig finished) or hitching (no one I knew had a car back then).

Fed up with all of this I moved to Nottingham, was going out to gigs at least once a week and all by bands that I actually wanted to see (and that was before Rock City had been built!)


And who actually GOES to see covers bands? From my own experience my covers band audience were either friends of the band members or people who would have been in the pub anyway. When I've been in the audience at a covers band gig it's either because I know someone in the band or because I'm there to check out the venue on a gig night. I can't help but think that the majority of the audience would be better served by a well-stocked juke box hooked up to a decent sound system.

[JTUK]

Well, there are cover bands who can sell 350 tickets at £10 a ticket for their own show.. so obviously someone does.

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1427876753' post='2735225']
And who actually GOES to see covers bands?
[/quote]

Well, as you've said a lot of the core audience is pub regulars and friends of the band members. The strong impression I get from Landlords is that the bands encourage passing punters to stay for the evening instead of having one and moving to the next pub; and it's also a selling point for the pub that they support live music, sponsor local sports teams and generally be a 'community' pub . There are also a lot of punters that REALLY like the interaction with a live band, having being regular 'proper' gig goers or band members themselves at some point. Also a lot of live cover bands in my area have really improved with excellent PA systems and lights/lasers, backdrops, in ear monitoring etc etc. I've been quite shocked to hear how many bands are still doing it with small vocal-only PA around the UK.

We were one of the first covers bands in the area (along with Razorback, Breed etc) to take modern hard/alternative rock and metal to ordinary pubs (from before I joined) and are lucky enough to have a following that travel to see us within their home town, and occasionally from Huddersfield to Bradford.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Adrenochrome

[neepheid]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1427880778' post='2735290']
The strong impression I get from Landlords is that the bands encourage passing punters to stay for the evening instead of having one and moving to the next pub
[/quote]

This made me recall a gig last November. It was looking pretty grim, place was dead. The poor guys in the first band on - half their entire audience was us. Thankfully a half dozen of my friends came down not long before we went on to make things look not so desperate. As we played, I saw that people had come in, and that they were staying. Place was looking a whole lot better by the time we finished. I guess we weren't awful then, and it backs up what you're saying.

Edited April 1, 2015 by neepheid

[Number6]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1427828316' post='2734834']


What's different about your neck of the woods? Everybody else is struggling for gigs.

Blue
[/quote]

Nothing really different Blue. The band know a few different local promotors who always keeps us in mind if they're looking to put a line up together. The promotors look after around 6-10 venues. We aren't expensive but tend to put together small groupings of gigs over a Fri, Sat and sometimes Sunday. I believe we are perceived by the promo lot to be pro enough to deliver the goods to a price and on time. Nothing more than that really.