5 String - not flavour of the month?

[JTUK]

I think you have to hear a 5 st and that makes it a different instrument.
If you think it is just a 4 with a low B then I can see why it wont work.

[Shedua511]

I've been playing 5-string almost exclusively since 1996: the only time I use a four string is when I need my fur strings (so much better then gut! ) or an instrument that has a unique sound and doesn't exist with 5-strings, namely a pre-EB Stingray.

I don't really understand the controversy over the number of strings: even the most conservative musical genre in the world, classical music, has embraced the 5-strings upright bass. You will find two or more in most orchestras.
For a practical example, to answer to that particular challenge, look up "Diavolo in me" by Zucchero: the bassline is played on the B string only, for range and timbre.

Some instruments do have a floppy, undefined B-string (I have tried some Fenders that were truly bad!), but others have a very well integrated low register. I also have a 36" 6-string bass, the definition of the low end on the B string is amazing! I haven't tried a Dingwall with a 37" low B, I'm sure it's even better sounding.
I find the Eb and D very useful, Db, C and B less so, but still useful when used in the right spot, in my personal experience. When working out arrangements with artists, most of the time they will prefer low D and Eb to their octave up equivalents, because they fill up more the bottom end and there is no range conflict with other instruments.

I also dig playing up the neck on the B string, it's a very interesting alternate sound to the same notes on the first frets, exactly like the same register on the E string. Besides, it's nice to give my fretting hand a rest at long rehearsals by playing where the frets are closer together. Another obvious advantage is that I can play chords that simply aren't playable on a 4-string.

The only downside is that you have to be more careful with muting: I put my thumb perpendicular over the strings to stop the B and E from resonating, something I didn't have to do before I played a 5... but it's a good thing, because it has freed me from playing only over the pickups, where I used to anchor my right thumb!

I have nothing against people who prefer to play 4-string, but denying the musical validity of a member of the bass family does seem a bit silly...

[SteveK]

I'm afraid I'm of the view that anything played on a B string just sounds ugly.
A few years ago, in a sad attempt to move in to the 80s, I had a custom Stingray 5 built for me. I spent many months getting comfortable with it - It looked gorgeous - it played beautifully - it sounded wonderful... until you involved the B string... anything played on the B just sounded ugly!

My (non technical) guess is that to get a B string to ring like a piano, the same as the higher strings, would require a ridiculously unplayable scale length.

I wouldn't deny though that 5ers have their place, particularly in the session world: If it's a choice of doing a Stevie Wonder session in Eb (JTUK mentioned Eb being SW's deault key) with a 5 string, or sticking to my 4 string guns and staying at home, then perhaps I could tolerate that B string ugliness

[discreet]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1428229045' post='2739260']
...If it's a choice of doing a Stevie Wonder session in Eb (JTUK mentioned Eb being SW's deault key) with a 5 string, or sticking to my 4 string guns and staying at home, then perhaps I could tolerate that B string ugliness
[/quote]

SW songs being a great example of 5-stringery that leaves me cold.
But then I'm probably the only human in the world who doesn't love SW and his works.

[quote name='Shedua511' timestamp='1428226786' post='2739215']
Another obvious advantage is that I can play chords that simply aren't playable on a 4-string.
[/quote]

Chords?? More controversy! Another comment that makes me believe that 5-string bassists are essentially frustrated guitar players!

[Bobthedog]

Talking to my local luthier last night, who is also a photographer, he came to the conclusion that 5 vs 4 is the same as Canon vs Nikon. There is no more correct answer but it does not stop these type of threads from appearing every so often. His view, but I know I am right! :-) I also use Nikon.

[Shedua511]

so a frustrated guitarist would take an electric bass (I prefer that to bass guitar) and go... lower?!? Honestly...
One of my favourite bassists is Tony Levin: for a beautiful bassline with chords, listen to "Don't give up" then tell me TL is a frustrated guitarist

Edited April 5, 2015 by Shedua511

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1428188807' post='2739036']
You might have something there! My dalliance with 5-string basses depressed the crap out of me. The 'B' is just too different to the other strings... not necessarily in tension (or whatever you want to call it) but I found I had to address it differently, in a way I didn't like. It seemed temperamental somehow and demanded special treatment, which I ultimately resented.

A 5-string bass isn't just a 4-string with an extra string - it's a completely different instrument in my opinion. One I don't like. YMMV obviously.

The only advantage (for me) was the fact that you don't have to move around the fretboard so much. But I don't think having those few lower notes is worth the extra learning curve, the extra weight and the extra expense. I found it a relief to get back to four strings, frankly.

And another thing, the usual songs cited as great examples of 5-stringery leave me completely cold! There, I've said it. Thhpp!!
[/quote]

For a little while last year you were very enthusiastic indeed about switching to 5-string. I think you may even have said that you could see yourself playing five strings exclusively in the future. I get that that may have been a brief honeymoon period, but surely you can see where the rest of us are coming from!

[RhysP]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1428229723' post='2739267']
SW songs being a great example of 5-stringery that leaves me cold.
But then I'm probably the only human in the world who doesn't love SW and his works.
[/quote]

Nope, I can't stand Stevie Wonder either, or pretty much any other funk or soul music to be honest.

[discreet]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1428230051' post='2739275']
Talking to my local luthier last night, who is also a photographer, he came to the conclusion that 5 vs 4 is the same as Canon vs Nikon. There is no more correct answer but it does not stop these type of threads from appearing every so often. His view, but I know I am right! :-) I also use Nikon.
[/quote]

You're right, they will appear - especially if you start them yourself. But there is no 'right' answer, as you say. It's a great opportunity to wind up 5-string players though, they're usually a bit touchy and defensive about their choice. *Runs away*

[discreet]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1428230228' post='2739279']
For a little while last year you were very enthusiastic indeed about switching to 5-string. I think you may even have said that you could see yourself playing five strings exclusively in the future. I get that that may have been a brief honeymoon period, but surely you can see where the rest of us are coming from!
[/quote]

Oh well, if you're going to go round remembering what I said in the past, what do you expect? Here's a phrase I thought I would never type and post on this forum: I was wrong.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1428230266' post='2739280']
Nope, I can't stand Stevie Wonder either, or pretty much any other funk or soul music to be honest.
[/quote]

Well that's a thing, because I love the funk - it's the 'preacher' (where jazz is the 'teacher'), but I don't like soul. Or SW, obviously.

Edited April 5, 2015 by discreet

[Iain]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1428229045' post='2739260']My (non technical) guess is that to get a B string to ring like a piano, the same as the higher strings, would require a ridiculously unplayable scale length.[/quote]

The 37" scale length on my 5-string certainly addresses that to a large extent. It's not all that thick @ 0.127" had oodles of sustain and attack. Certainly better then my previous Warwick. Intonation is better than other 5s I've owned, again due to the length.

Much of the tone will also depend on what it's played through. Moving from 2 small cabs (900W headroom) to a single 2x12 (1200W headroom) had been a real eye (and ear) opener.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1428230266' post='2739280']
Nope, I can't stand Stevie Wonder either, or pretty much any other funk or soul music to be honest.
[/quote]

Can I suggest that this is the argument that people are actually having in this thread? The people defending ERBs are citing a lot of examples of funk and soul, and the people bashing them don't seem to like funk and soul. 5's are great for that kind of music because the bassist often has to keep a deep groove going without getting in the way of the soloists, whereas a lot of good rock basslines cross over slightly into the guitarist's sonic territory, making the bottom five notes somewhat cosmetic. The rise and fall in popularity of the 5-string in mainstream rock music seems to correlate closely with the days of nu-metal and 7-string guitars.

Further evidence, I'd argue, is that most of the basses typically cited as having a 'good' B-string tend to be the more 'modern' designs, with exotic woods and advanced pre-amps for tone sculpting, something a lot of rock bassists would turn their nose up at. I've not seen many ERB players talking about getting that "Rick clank" or "P-bass growl" out of their Overwater or their Ritter. (Though of course exceptions will exist!)

I've never had the bug for a 5, but I wouldn't rule one out. Though a more pragmatic part of me thinks that, when the time comes to dip my toe in the ERB pool, I'll probably go straight for a 6 or a 7 and have done with it!

[discreet]

I'm into funk, 'groove music' and rock. And preamps.

[EliasMooseblaster]

Well, I did say exceptions would exist!

[Skol303]

I just like the additional options of a 5-string.

I don't find myself playing the sub-E notes any more often than I would the low notes on a four string.

I like playing across the neck - I find it easier and quicker. And I like the option of being able to drop the occasional bowel-shaking B to Eb into my playing whenever I choose.

And I like a bowel-shaking low end in my music... some of you four string guys just sound as though you're a little, err, constipated

[SteveK]

Another exception here!

[discreet]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1428232253' post='2739326']...some of you four string guys just sound as though you're a little, err, constipated
[/quote]

Just the opposite. Thhhppppppp! Woops.

[darkandrew]

There was a time when I more or less gave up playing bass, and it was pretty much down to me selling my old workhorse Westone and "upgrading" to a Yamaha 5 string - I just couldn't get on with the Yamaha 5 at all and as a result all but stopped playing for a couple of years. It was only later that I returned to playing bass and the first thing that I did was get rid of that Yamaha 5 string. Fast forward a few years and I thought I'd give 5 string basses another go, so bought myself a Spector Euro 5LX from here and took to it instantly. So I guess with 5 stringers, just as with any other instrument, you get some that play better than others.

Edited April 5, 2015 by darkandrew

[ambient]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1428230266' post='2739280']


Nope, I can't stand Stevie Wonder either, or pretty much any other funk or soul music to be honest.
[/quote]

Me neither 😊

[RhysP]

[quote name='darkandrew' timestamp='1428241523' post='2739470']
.....so bought myself a Spector Euro 5LX from here and took to it instantly.
[/quote]

The Spector Euro 5LX was easily the best of the five string basses I owned, superb instrument.

[SteveK]

[quote name='Iain' timestamp='1428230992' post='2739294']
The 37" scale length on my 5-string certainly addresses that to a large extent.
[/quote]
37"? That would help - do you have exceptionally long arms?
What bass is that? Is it one of those fanned fret jobbies?

Never really gave fanned fret basses much thought, but the extra length B string would go some way to alleviate the "ugliness" that I associate with standard scale B's.

Edited April 5, 2015 by SteveK

[Iain]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1428244512' post='2739513']
37"? That would help - do you have exceptionally long arms?
What bass is that? Is it one of those fanned fret jobbies?

Never really gave fanned fret basses much thought, but the extra length B string would go some way to alleviate the "ugliness" that I associate with standard scale B's.
[/quote]

Yeah, the G is standard 34" and the B 37". Took very little getting used to and the extra length is mostly at the bridge end - hard to 'get' until you play one. I find the 1st fret easier to reach than I did on my Warwick which sat further left on the strap.

[Machines]

My main bass is a 5 but I play some 4's too. I feel limited in terms of notes on the 4's but conversely more comfortable.

I have a 6 too that I play the least, I lack the dedication to learn it properly and probably sell it for something 'easier' that I'll use.

[SteveK]

[quote name='Iain' timestamp='1428245323' post='2739518']
Yeah, the G is standard 34" and the B 37". Took very little getting used to and the extra length is mostly at the bridge end - hard to 'get' until you play one. I find the 1st fret easier to reach than I did on my Warwick which sat further left on the strap.
[/quote]Thanks Iain, food for thought!

[darkandrew]

The aforementioned Euro 5LX also has an extended 35" scale which helps tighten up the "b" string. It really is one of the most playable basses I've ever owned.

Edited April 5, 2015 by darkandrew