Jamming - What is it?

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1428616739' post='2743212']
the annoying bit comes when the guitarist doesn't know what chords/ changes he's playing..
[/quote]

I think this is the crux of my frustrations with jamming.

If someone was to go "hey guys lets jam something over 3/4 in F, a simple I, IV, V - Fmaj, Bbmaj & Cmaj and then breaking down for a section in D Minor". That would be fine, everyone knows where they are, where the piece is going and you can all play something that sounds good with notes that actually work together. However it never works out like this. The suggestion of a jam is always proceeded by a guitarist playing some kind of chromatic riff, in no discernible key signature which is basically just a random combination of notes, where the only bass options are roots or exactly the same as the guitarist is playing.

[RhysP]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1428624936' post='2743288']
My understanding of jamming coincides with Blue's observation. Some friends would get into a room with no pre-planned song list; someone randomly starts playing a pattern, a riff or some chords and everyone else follows along. Over time the 'song' mutates, winds down, re-starts, wanders off and comes back.

There may be a pause while someone puts the kettle on or - perhaps - constructs a Camberwell Carrot. Then you start playing again. Repeat until everyone's bored or the neighbours call the council.

It [s]can[/s] used to go on for ages - the longest I ever jammed was about ten hours including comfort breaks. You'd come back from having a piss and they'd have moved the jam on a notch. Or not
[/quote]

This is what I would class as jamming too. What are commonly referred to as "Jam Nights" in my experience are anything but that, as most people playing have a pretty good idea what they will be playing, especially the "house band", who will generally play the same stuff week in week out.

[KARIKAL]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1428647234' post='2743311']
If you've got good musicians, jamming can be great fun & very rewarding.

[/quote] Well in my own experience, jamming may also be particularly rewarding when you are not great musicians.
[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1428624936' post='2743288']
My understanding of jamming coincides with Blue's observation. Some friends would get into a room with no pre-planned song list; someone randomly starts playing a pattern, a riff or some chords and everyone else follows along. Over time the 'song' mutates, winds down, re-starts, wanders off and comes back.


[/quote]
100% agreed. In my former band, we all had different musical backgrounds and some of us had little experience in playing in a band. We always reserved half an hour for jamming at the beginning of our rehearsals. The drummer started with a pattern, then I played a very simple bass line, and the guitarists followed. Then, when everything was in place, the drummer or myself progressively changed the rythm/energy, so that the atmosphere of the music was completely changed. It's a very efficient way to learn and play together, listen to each other, communicate through sound changes and discreet visual signs, and explore the different sort of music we can play around three notes. Now you can't always avoid a wobbly guitar solo but that's fine. We bassists have to be generous towards our less fortunate fellows. Of course, the rythmic section also needs to be authoritarian from time to time and the jamming session is a good way to establish the balance of power in a band.

[FuNkShUi]

Turn up and play.
If it sounds good, and just fits, you'll know.
If it sounds bad, and has a kind of tension to it, don't worry. you're playing jazz

[Leonard Smalls]

I made the mistake once of thinking everyone else thought "a jam" was the same as I did...
My local pub used to have Jam Night on a Wednesday.
So I bunged the Marshall with one cab in the back of the motor, then wheeled the half-stack into the boozer.
It turned out that it was an open mic night, where everyone did their own little turn - mostly folky types with an acoustic! I was allowed by "the leader" (!) to play along with one of these people.
However, many years ago I used to play in an 8 piece band (containing 3 horn players who used to play with Steve Lacy); we never rehearsed - just jammed on the roof of the drummer's studio in Shoreditch. It usually took 3-4 hours before the police told us to stop, which is surprising for those who know what Mr Lacy sounds like!

[JoeEvans]

The thing to remember about improvised music is that the bass player is very much in the driving seat. You control the key signature and chord changes; you control the drive and the groove; you are the interface between rhythm and harmony. If it gets boring, it's for you to fix...
I played for some years in a band which was all improvised, with no tunes at all; we recorded a couple of albums like that as well as doing lots of gigs. When it was good, it was amazing - sometimes whole, fully-formed tunes would just come out; other times it was a bloody awful racket. From that experience, I would say that on the whole, improvising in a single key or a change back and forth between two keys is better than using a whole chord sequence; for the bass player, it's good to use very 'open' harmonies - root notes, fourths, fifths, seconds, sevenths - and not too many notes that define the scale too closely, so less thirds and sixths and less chromatic leading notes. That gives the other musicians more room for manoeuvre.
Good to listen to some improvised music - Miles Davis' 'In a Silent Way' and 'Panthalassa' could be a starting point although lots of people hate that kind of jazz..

Edited April 10, 2015 by JoeEvans

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1428624936' post='2743288']
My understanding of jamming coincides with Blue's observation. Some friends would get into a room with no pre-planned song list; someone randomly starts playing a pattern, a riff or some chords and everyone else follows along. Over time the 'song' mutates, winds down, re-starts, wanders off and comes back.

There may be a pause while someone puts the kettle on or - perhaps - constructs a Camberwell Carrot. Then you start playing again. Repeat until everyone's bored or the neighbours call the council.

It [s]can[/s] used to go on for ages - the longest I ever jammed was about ten hours including comfort breaks. You'd come back from having a piss and they'd have moved the jam on a notch. Or not
[/quote]

Yup, this is pretty much my recollection of the jamming I used to participate in back in the 1980s. Drummer mate of mine had tolerant (deaf?) parents with a big house with a cellar, so we were lucky in that we had somewhere to 'hang out' and have endless jam sessions, generally involving various forms of herbal/fungal refreshment. There was a bucket piss in the corner at one point with a frog living in it... happy days ideed.

Jamming was pretty much how we all learnt to play in those days, and I still think there is great deal of benefit to be had from it. I may not have all of the technical chops that a lot of modern taught players have, but I generally have no issue coming up with a bassline on the spot.

[CHW]

In my first couple of years of playing (late high school and early 6th form) I remember long jams and get togethers, it was all about exploring playing together and learning songs from each other and learning how to improvise. Brilliant times.

As my skills and experience have grown I have far fewer desires to make a load of noise together and want to really hit the ground running when I play in a group situation. Only as a bit of a release or writing moment will a jam break out- and not for long, usually when waiting for someone to arrive, or come back from the loo.

As for these Jam Nights in pubs?? who came up with that title?

[SteveK]

I don't get the negative posts re: jamming.
You'll learn more from 3 hours jamming with your mates than 3 hours on your own widdling about in your bedroom. So what if it becomes a 10 minute blues/funk workout in E, It will be 10 minutes well spent.
Providing you're all at a similar level and approach it with an open mind I don't see the problem.
Jams can be as simple or as complicated as you like, or your ability allows.

[neepheid]

I used to avoid like the plague unstructured, free form jamming, I just didn't feel I was good enough and I didn't have nearly enough chops to contribute effectively so it left me cold. More recently though, a jam just kind of happened in the rehearsal room - the sax player was having a noodle to himself and gradually everyone just joined in and it became quite a funky thing IMHO, might even be the start of an idea for a new song. Not only did I manage to carve out a riff or two in the 8 or 9 minutes, I managed to change the direction of the jam as alluded to above, I went for a change about 6 minutes in and to my surprise (and delight) everyone followed me (there or thereabouts)!

There is a recording, I swithered about putting up stuff that isn't "ready" but seeing as I think it's relevant - here it is: [media]http://www.ifb.co.uk/~matthew/mp3/Teaspoons/practice20141118/Funky%20Spoons.mp3[/media]

[dannybuoy]

In my opinion, a jam is when you all make everything up as you go along, you have total freedom and may come up with something strong enough to form the foundation of a future song. The last band I was in, I met a guitarist and drummer and we did exactly that and I recorded it for posterity:

http://www.box.net/shared/k5j1a64v7t

Listening out for cues from the other members and taking turns to either follow or lead the pack, when you have that synergy it's a great feeling.

Most pubs idea of a jam night though is either an open mic night, or a house band plays a few covers and lets anyone else take over an instrument or the entire setup to play tracks everyone knows. I only took part in one of these once, it was pointless me going on bass as I've always just played my own stuff on bass rather than covers, but knew quite a bit of Hendrix, Nirvana, Metallica, and RATM from my teen days of learning guitar. So I picked up a six-string for the first time in years and played a few random tracks. It was a good laugh, but more painting by numbers than true jamming IMHO.

[dannybuoy]

Also, I and I know at least two other members of this forum have taken part in a band named the Overdrive Orchestra. A band that never has different members each time they play, the general premise is the bassist (or one of the bassists) makes up a loop and sticks to it while everyone improvises over the top. There's not as much freedom being stuck to that loop but everyone else can go wild within the constraints of that pattern, and there's something satisfying about being the foundation of the track that everyone else is following.

[Old Man Riva]

To be honest, I've always been more wary of any musician that couldn't/wouldn't jam.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Years ago , I went for a band audition , in wembley . Turned out it was just a practice thing in the rehearsal studio with Mr. Drums and Mr. Guitar.
I wasn't long after leaving my first proper band , and I was very embarrassed. These guys were brilliant . They just jammed and I was trying to find anything that would fit , with great difficulty.

They told me that they both just came out of one of those music colleges, which explains why they were so tight .
I got a phone call a few days later asking if I'd be up for another jam. But I made an excuse up ( purely because I lacked any kind of confidence ).
They were nice guys.
Apparently Mr. Guitar was only gonna be doing it for a couple of weeks as he had to take an important job .

[RhysP]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1428660224' post='2743458']
There's not as much freedom being stuck to that loop but everyone else can go wild within the constraints of that pattern, and there's something satisfying about being the foundation of the track that everyone else is following.
[/quote]

I used to love doing stuff like that - I'm more than happy to just play a single note pulse or a very simple repeating pattern & just listen to what everyone else is doing over the top of it. A lot of the stuff my old band did was like that & it could be incredibly hypnotic when it worked well.

Edited April 10, 2015 by RhysP

[Dave Vader]

Back in my old band from 99 now (on guitar, sorry) all we ever did was jam endlessly until we had something that would work as a finished track (think of a cross between Hawkwind and mogwai and you'll get close to what we're doing) I have missed it, I am glad we're doing it again.

it helps that we've all known each other forever so we can nudge it in a particular direction by just looking at each other the right way, also that we can just look at each others fingers and know where we are at any given point musically.

I have been stuck in a few bands over the last few years where just as it is starting to get interesting the leader shouts for everyone to stop and enthuses about one little bit, talks endlessly about where it should go, and where we think it could take us, or ask for certain cymbal fills to be chucked in. Which takes you out of the moment, and it all turns to sh*t.

Once again I can just leave my guitar to feed back at various different pitches for 5 minutes, and everyone will smile and nod as if I am a guitar playing genius. I love jamming.

Those who are meeting up and playing covers are not jamming, nor are those playing what they are being told to play. never be afraid to play wrong notes, and never be afraid to boldly play a riff that does not fit what the others are doing until they move along to your way of thinking, otherwise that 10 minute blues thing that was alluded to earlier might happen.

[JoeEvans]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1428674313' post='2743676']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I have been stuck in a few bands over the last few years where just as it is starting to get interesting the leader shouts for everyone to stop and enthuses about one little bit, talks endlessly about where it should go, and where we think it could take us, or ask for certain cymbal fills to be chucked in. Which takes you out of the moment, and it all turns to sh*t.[/font][/color]
[/quote]
When I was playing in an improvising band, we had a rule that no-one was allow to talk about what we should play or how we should play it; any ideas had to be expressed by playing them and hoping that everyone else picked up on what you were trying to communicate...

[peteb]

Having played in the house band at many jam sessions, including a couple at pretty big blues festivals, I would say that the format is generally as follows. You have a house band with a leader (or maybe two) who has a suitably large repertoire of suitable songs. The band may or may not play a couple of songs first then the leader will call up people to join the band / replace members on stage, etc. The newcomer may or may not assume the mantle of leader for that song.

The leader will call out a song along with the basic structure (key, chord changes, feel, etc) and then lead the band through the piece, calling on featured soloists as and when. The ‘arrangement’ will change on the fly according to how it develops / how inspired the players are feeling. These changes will be communicated by a series of hand signals, nods and when all else fails, shouting in each other’s ears! When the leader has had enough or feels the song is coming to a natural end he will give the signal (usually by raising his arm) and the band will attempt to work out a suitable outro and finish. The leader then thanks the guest musicians and calls up the next players to the stage. Whether this type of jam works or not depends on how good the players are and how adept the leader is at getting the best out of them but when it works it can be great fun to participate in and even quite entertaining to watch! It certainly sharpens up your playing no end.

As neither a fan of Hawkwind or freeform jazz, I find the idea of someone randomly starting to play something then everybody joining in using the power of telepathy to be rather unappealing and certainly not to be inflicted on members of the public! Of course, someone may bring an unformed idea to a rehearsal and then use it as a basis of a jam to develop material (such as the way Deep Purple Mark 2 used to write), but I am not convinced that is necessarily the best method of songwriting. You could even bring fully formed songs to the rehearsal room and then jam to work out the arrangement, which may mean the song sounds nothing like the way it was conceived (for good or ill). According to Stewart Copeland, this was one of the main reasons for both the success of the Police and the cause of their eventual demise…

[Marvin]

Jamming to me means making stuff up on the spot, not playing covers...that's a whole different thing. It's why i don't bother with jam nights, because they aren't what i feel are jams, they're untidy open mic nights

[peteb]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1428683442' post='2743798']
Jamming to me means making stuff up on the spot, not playing covers...that's a whole different thing. It's why i don't bother with jam nights, because they aren't what i feel are jams, they're untidy open mic nights
[/quote]
I would say that you are not playing covers but using a tune as a structure for a jam, which should never be the same twice but can go in whatever direction that the players care to take it...

[Dad3353]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1428682085' post='2743786']...I find the idea of someone randomly starting to play something then everybody joining in using the power of telepathy to be rather unappealing and certainly not to be inflicted on members of the public!...
[/quote]

The Grateful Dead made a successful career from this (as well as more 'structured' offerings...). We all have differing tastes, of course, but a great deal can be had from telepathy between experienced musicians. I witnessed such an 'event' seeing Shakti (triple bill with Billy Cobham and Weather Report, Hammersmith...). A tabla virtuoso and another thumping an inverted clay pot stole the show. They would play a phrase each in turn, the other would respond. The phrases became shorter and shorter until the two were playing as one. Of the two options, that they had rehearsed, or that they were playing by thought transmission, the latter seems to me by far the simpler explanation, such was their degree of synchronisation and mutual empathy. Unforgettable. I've never forgotten it. Jamming..? It can be likened to successful magic when it works. It doesn't always, of course, but when it does, there's no substitute.

[blue]

Great topic, however it saddens me how much things have changed since the 60s & 70s.


If I were to go to an "Open Mic" and said to the drummer [i]" give me a tight funk beat like this "[/i]. And then told the other musicians [i]"I am going to play this riff as our foundation in E the changes will simple go from G to A, I'll que you guys"[/i] They would look at me like I was crazy. In my area the caliber of musician that could hang with something even that basic do not participate in open mics.

Ticks me off that this sort of thing doesn't happen any more. At least not in my part of the world. it really should be enjoyable to most musicians,

Around here most younger musicians do not really know or understand what I will call these "Early 70s Home Style Jams" are really about. i wouldn't mind teaching the art of jamming, however I doubt there would be much interest. Too bad because they were a great bench mark for understanding your strengths and weaknesses. Some of you older guys that were playing back in the 70s probably remember going to this type of jam and getting [i]"smoked"[/i] by some other bass player. And you knew that meant you better start taking the instrument a little more seriously and get to wood shedding and practicing.

[i]" If you think the Dave Mathews Band is jamming, ok, but not by my definition"[/i]

Blue

Edited April 10, 2015 by blue

[SteveK]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1428682085' post='2743786']
everybody joining in using the power of telepathy
[/quote]It's nothing to do with telepathy, it's all about responding to what is going on around you.
It's quite simple - if you're serious about your instrument and want to be the best player/musician that you can be, then get yourself involved in the occasional jam session... THERE IS NO DOWN SIDE!

[blue]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1428699967' post='2743985']
It's nothing to do with telepathy, it's all about responding to what is going on around you.
It's quite simple - if you're serious about your instrument and want to be the best player/musician that you can be, then get yourself involved in the occasional jam session... THERE IS NO DOWN SIDE!
[/quote]

Agreed, however, I think having competent musicians is key.

Blue

[SteveK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1428700173' post='2743989']
Agreed, however, I think having competent musicians is key.

Blue
[/quote]If it's for public comsuption... Absolutely! But, If it's in the confines of a bedroom or rehearsal room, it doesn't really matter. Jamming will go someway to making you a "competent musician"... and beyond!

Edited April 10, 2015 by SteveK