With apologies! Tone from maple board versus tone from rosewood board.....?

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1429294483' post='2750237']
The string might not be touching the board, but the fret transfers vibration directly to the board. The softer, more flexible or porous this board material is, the greater the damping effect on the vibration.

Imagine if your board was made of sponge. The frets would wobble about, taking energy away from the string, which then gets dampened by the sponge. It would have a similar effect to playing with foam mutes.

Since rosewood is more 'spongey' than maple, this is exactly why it sounds darker, it's just that the difference is a lot more subtle.
[/quote]

Nice

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1429294483' post='2750237']
The string might not be touching the board, but the fret transfers vibration directly to the board. The softer, more flexible or porous this board material is, the greater the damping effect on the vibration.

Imagine if your board was made of sponge. The frets would wobble about, taking energy away from the string, which then gets dampened by the sponge. It would have a similar effect to playing with foam mutes.

Since rosewood is more 'spongey' than maple, this is exactly why it sounds darker, it's just that the difference is a lot more subtle.
[/quote]

All makes sense, except that rosewood is definitely more dense and less 'spongey' than rosewood.
I know this from having worked with both woods a fair bit.
A quick Google confirms this; density of maple = 39-47 lb/ft3, density of Rosewood = 50-55 lb/ft3

Edit: strangely enough, despite being more dense, rosewood is more porous. No Idea how this has a bearing on tone

Edited April 17, 2015 by Roland Rock

[Drax]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1429304166' post='2750353']
All makes sense, except that rosewood is definitely more dense and less 'spongey' than [b]maple.[/b]
I know this from having worked with both woods a fair bit.
A quick Google confirms this; density of maple = 39-47 lb/ft3, density of Rosewood = 50-55 lb/ft3

Edit: strangely enough, despite being more dense, rosewood is more porous. No Idea how this has a bearing on tone
[/quote]

..and then we're getting into alder v ash bodies

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1429304166' post='2750353']
Edit: strangely enough, despite being more dense, rosewood is more porous. No Idea how this has a bearing on tone
[/quote]

Sponges are porous, ergo rosewood is spongier!

You can see visible gaps in the grain with rosewood, plus it soaks up lemon oil like a, er, sponge!

Edited April 17, 2015 by dannybuoy

[discreet]

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1429306748' post='2750390']

[/quote]

Wayne Rooney? Uh?

[discreet]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1429307049' post='2750396']
Wayne Rooney? Uh?
[/quote]

Well the thread seemed dull, so I thought I'd brighten it up a bit.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1429306344' post='2750381']
Sponges are porous, ergo rosewood is spongier!
[/quote]
Yes, but I don't think one can describe the more dense, less soft wood as 'spongier' just because it is more porous.



[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1429306344' post='2750381']
You can see visible gaps in the grain with rosewood, plus it soaks up lemon oil like a, er, sponge!
[/quote]
No arguments there, like I said in my post, rosewood is the more porous.

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1429307208' post='2750401']


Well the thread seemed dull, so I thought I'd brighten it up a bit.
[/quote]
blooming rosewood threads...

[lowregisterhead]

There are too may variables to say precisely one way or the other, IMHO. I've owned basses with rosewood boards that have been much 'brighter' than similar instruments with maple boards, but the neck and body woods, pickups, preamps, strings, amps, cabs, EQ that you favour, personal perception and preference all play a part.

Just find a couple of basses that float your boat and stick with them. You can waste an awful lot of money indulging yourself in the search for the perfect bass - I'm now convinced that such a thing doesn't exist - but I've had a lot of fun looking, and I now have a couple of basses that are keepers, for very different reasons. I still keep an eye out for something that might take my fancy, though...

[pfretrock]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1429304166' post='2750353']
All makes sense, except that rosewood is definitely more dense and less 'spongey' than rosewood.
I know this from having worked with both woods a fair bit.
A quick Google confirms this; density of maple = 39-47 lb/ft3, density of Rosewood = 50-55 lb/ft3

Edit: strangely enough, despite being more dense, rosewood is more porous. No Idea how this has a bearing on tone
[/quote]

Rosewood is also considerably harder. But I think the relevant property is the modulus of elasticity (which is a measure of how much a material bends under load). Geeks can go here:[url="http://www.conradfp.com/pdf/ch4-Mechanical-Properties-of-Wood.pdf"] link[/url]
Incidentally if anyone has two (maple, rosewood) bases that only differ in the neck can they try holding the body and tapping the back of the neck behing the 5th fret with a knuckle. Does one sound duller? Does one sound sharper in pitch?

Edited April 17, 2015 by pfretrock

[pfretrock]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1429306344' post='2750381']
plus it soaks up lemon oil like a, er, sponge!
[/quote]

Well that's buggered your tone.

[pete.young]

[quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1429292640' post='2750195']
And Ivory?
[/quote]

Got a lot of basses with ivory fretboards, have you?

If the folklore that ebony boards sit between maple and rosewood in terms of brightness is true, that blows away the hardness argument since ebony is a lot harder and more dense than either rosewood or maple.

Beedster you need to get some otherwise identical necks made up with different board materials and test them all on the same body with the same brand of strings to eliminate as many sources of error as possible.

[Happy Jack]

Don't forget the cost of maintenance, which can be significant.

Maple boards can get quite syrup-y whereas rosewood boards need pruning at least once a year.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1429307417' post='2750405']

blooming rosewood threads...
[/quote]

😃👍

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1429347239' post='2750582']
Don't forget the cost of maintenance, which can be significant.

Maple boards can get quite syrup-y whereas rosewood boards need pruning at least once a year.
[/quote]

Ah..! Thorny questions there; this could get sticky.

[Rich]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1429257154' post='2749654']
NB I don't know sh*t.
[/quote]
[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1429259257' post='2749679']
Me neither but that doesn't stop me posting opinion as fact on BC...
[/quote]

[PlungerModerno]

Quite an entertaining thread -

I can't recall if it's been mentioned already - but for a fretless fingerboard - density, hardness, finish, and smoothness can definitely influence tone, texture and sustain on an electric fretless solidbody basses. At least it can change the way you play it.

The fretted equivalent would be fret material (density & hardness), smoothness (how highly polished at the crown), and how broad the contact area is - e.g. the weird sounds badly dented frets can make, or the often horrible buzzing and intonation issues of leveled but uncrowned frets a.k.a. "flat tops".

My experience is that good fretwork plays and sounds good. I can't say I've noticed a huge difference between maple and rosewood fingerboards in feel either - not like bound vs. unbound fretboards anyway.

When it comes to the species of wood - Given the variety within wood of the same species or even from the same tree (as has been mentioned before) it's not reasonable to say, as far as I can see, that wood species and tone are linked in a predictable way. Certainly not for solid body instruments with standard (properly potted) magnetic pickups.

For acoustics, semi acoustics, piezo pickups, and other instrument types it may be different. My guess would be that the weight and ergonomics of an instrument matter more to getting a given sound time and time again, rather than having a snakewood or birdseye maple fingerboard:

[blue]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1429289904' post='2750143']
See, this is what baffles me somewhat... if the string is held at one end by the nut and at the other end by the bridge, and when the strings are fretted they don't actually touch the surface of the fretboard in any meaningful way... how can the fretboard wood have any bearing on tone or how the string vibrates? And my 2p: I generally prefer maple boards simply because I like the look of them.
[/quote]

I'm a "tone comes from the execution, your fingers" guy. So I completely get your point.

I have basses with maple, ebony and rosewood fretboards. No difference in the sound of any of them. My G&L ASAT is maple and it has that what they call "birds eye". Pretty cool looking.

Blue

[lojo]

Ive a maple and a rosewood necked P bass , Ive gigged both basses with the same pick up, no obvious difference to me, and surely if there is any minor difference , measuring it by a twist on a tone dial its going to be a minute adjustment surely ?

Also as others have said the string is on the fret and the bridge

Im also always puzzled by tone woods and bodies etc, as my hohner B2 with hardly any body can punch out tones just as my precision does. Isn't it 99% metal influnced (strings, coils, pots, and wiring etc)

[discreet]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1429521623' post='2752126']
Isn't it 99% metal influenced (strings, coils, pots, and wiring etc)
[/quote]

I think so... type of pickups, electronics and pickup placement. And strings. If you really want to change the sound of an existing bass, just fit different strings. I think a lot of perceived problems with 'tone' are down to string choice.

Edited April 20, 2015 by discreet

[FinnDave]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1429522121' post='2752138']
I think so... type of pickups, electronics and pickup placement. And strings. If you really want to change the sound of an existing bass, just fit different strings. I think a lot of perceived problems with 'tone' are down to string choice.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more (so I won't try to)

[miles'tone]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1429522121' post='2752138']


I think so... type of pickups, electronics and pickup placement. And strings. If you really want to change the sound of an existing bass, just fit different strings. I think a lot of perceived problems with 'tone' are down to string choice.
[/quote]

Yup.

[Beedster]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1429522121' post='2752138']
I think so... type of pickups, electronics and pickup placement. And strings. If you really want to change the sound of an existing bass, just fit different strings. I think a lot of perceived problems with 'tone' are down to string choice.
[/quote]

OK, I agree in theory (hence this thread), but if this is the case, and as suggested by many players above and quite a few pros (for example Barrie's post above), why do quite a few people indicate that they choose maple boards for brightness (and never in my experience the opposite)? Do maple boards look brighter or feel brighter, does the fact that varnished finish feels a little colder and more clinical than oiled finish add to the mix? Is is perhaps the varnish, would players who express a preference for the brightness of maple boards find a varnished rosewood board equally bright? I'm not so much asking which wood is brighter and why, but why so many players feel that maple is brighter and why?

[discreet]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1429615921' post='2753169']
OK, I agree in theory (hence this thread), but if this is the case, and as suggested by many players above and quite a few pros (for example Barrie's post above), why do quite a few people indicate that they choose maple boards for brightness (and never in my experience the opposite)?
[/quote]

Going against my own comment somewhat, in my experience maple boards give more of a scooped sound rather than just extra brightness. But whether there's any difference or not, I think any changes in pickups, electronics or strings will make an exponentially larger and definitely measurable difference. So it's down to which you prefer the look of in my opinion. If you prefer a rosewood board but want extra 'brightness' use bright strings, snappy pickups or simply adjust your EQ!

Edited April 21, 2015 by discreet