"turn it down"

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1429549407' post='2752504']
It actually is worth it, IMO, as there is turning down to reasonable levels and then there is stupid reasoning as appears to be the case from the description from the OP
They don't pay me enough to pander to ruining the gig ( for us as much as anyone else ) and I'm not desperate to want any repeat business from a venue that will gladly take the money but not be willing or able to be good on its delivery.

In this case, I'll make sure the client is happy over and above the venue manager. In the event of noise management devices at venues, we've refused to play them if we know the to have unreasonable expectations to the volumes of a live band.
As it happens, quite a few of these places are wedding venues... so they want the lucrative wedding market and then risk the
outcome of the big day with a noise meter set at 85db or thereof... I think this is warped thinking on behalf of the venue and we want no part of it.
Get another band...
[/quote]

Depends on the band and how you look at the business. We're like most bands,we have a few venues in our gig rotation that aren't real easy for us. However they pay our fee and re-rebook us. And we have places that are always great to play.

It all evens out in the end.

Blue

Edited April 21, 2015 by blue

[itsmedunc]

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1429514488' post='2752013']
I havent got an issue being asked to turn down. We play for the venue/function/party, so if they ask you to turn down, you turn down.
Where i have an issue is when we have an hour to soundcheck before the function starts and we wont have another chance to get levels right until we play, and the manager comes to tell us we need to turn down, alot, 5 minutes before soundcheck finishes.
We'd been playing for 40 minutes, fine tuning the mix levels, and 5 mins before the end of our soundcheck he tells us this.
Usually it would just be a case of taking everything down in equal amounts. But the problem here was we were already quiet! My amp was already at the lowest volume output, before no volume was coming out. I had to set it to as quiet as possible, then cut the volume some more onboard my bass!
We aren't a rock band so being loud as hell isn't a problem, but we were asked to play so quietly our brass section didnt bother with mics.
This wasn't a small party either. It was in a function hall with 250 guests.
Sent us in to a small panic to be honest.
It all worked out well in the end though. Had a good gig, got a few good bookings from it.
But we were asked multiple times to turn up. So should this venue state no bands when they take bookings? They didn't seem keen to have one.
[/quote]

Wow! 40 minutes for a soundcheck? I've been playing live for 35 years and never come close to that! Luckily, we have a really good PA company now who we trust. If they says it's right after 5 minutes, it's right.

Management at venues often complain that "it's too loud" etc but mostly have calmed down by the time the band is on. If the bar is busy they usually won't complain again. It's what they do!

[BobVbass]

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Wow! 40 minutes for a soundcheck?[/font][/color][/quote]

yes same here - mosty 10 mins max. We also now use an electronic drum kit exactly for the "can you turn it down" brigade, it makes life so much easier

[FuNkShUi]

Yeh we were told we had an hour to get everything in, set up and sound schecked. Took us 20 mins to get everything set up, so 40 mins for a sound check
We arent usually this fortunate either, but thought we'd make the most of it!

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1429548095' post='2752492']
Goes with the territory.

When asked to turn down by a venue owner you turn down. It's not worth it to put to much thought into it and take the fun out of the gig.

Blue
[/quote]

I agree with you, and thats what we did. This venue is very popular for weddings/functions so there was no need to be angering the manager!
As JT said though, you do wonder if they should be booking bands if they don't want the sound levels a band will produce. I'm not over exaggerating to say i've heard acoustic acts play louder than we were asked to play.
Obviously you are advertising for your next potential gigs everytime you play, so we made it known to the organiser early on that we were asked to play at the level we were at.
We also said during the introduction that if there were any problems with levels, be that we were too loud or too quiet, to let us know.
We did turn up a bit as the night went on, and as i said, overall the gig went well. Dancefloor full all night, a good few bookings off the back of it, and the manager asked for our contact details to book us in for 3 more slots!

[JTUK]

We'll take an hour to set up and an hour for sound. If it is right before that time, then fine, but the target is to be clear by
a certain time and that is at least 2hrs from when are set to arrive. That is always the plan.

[FuNkShUi]

Yeh not keen on having to rush to get things right.
Especially as we are in charge of our own sound

[itsmedunc]

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1429604503' post='2752991']
Yeh not keen on having to rush to get things right.
Especially as we are in charge of our own sound
[/quote]

It's hard work doing your own sound. We did that for a while. it started to ruin the rest of the night for us. Everybody was stressed before we started! It would have helped if there was anybody else in the band (apart from one of the guitarists and I) that knew how to set the rig up etc. I always ended up with the desk next to me

We never play without a rig now and mostly use the same company. If we get the timing right the PA is in and he is playing music before we arrive. We get the drummer to arrive 30mins before the rest of us so he is set up when we arrive. Then it usually goes like this - I'll get set up in 5 minutes and get the singer to go to the bar whilst the 2 guitarists talk cack for ages... and ages... and ages...

[FuNkShUi]

Hahaha yeh we only have the one guitarist, but he can talk cack with the best of em.

Always have the desk next to me too. The frustrating thing is when we are having issues (feedback), i'll tell them why we are getting it and they dont listen.
Guitarist will usually suggest "turn it all up so you can't hear the feedback"....... What a pearler

[TimR]

Bands are generally too loud.

I have one rule.

It has to be loud on the dance floor and not at the back of the hall.

If you're playing a function not everyone there wants to dance.

I does depend on the size of the hall but you're not aiming to fill the whole room with sound.

The best gigs I've played are when we've got the volume right. We had a drummer who always complained it wasn't loud enough. This is the guy who sits at the back of the band. Behind the speakers!

[Muzz]

Never been given an hour to get the sound right. As a consequence, we can do it in 20 minutes, less if we really, really have to...

Best 'turn it down' was a hotel we played in Montrose as part of the music festival up there - it was a very posh place, they didn't really want bands on, clearly, but had been dragged into the whole thing as pretty much every other place in the town was hosting gigs. On arrival, they said "Can you play quietly over there?", pointing to a small corner. Accordingly, we set up small (PA tops only, minimal kit, acoustic as much as possible), and the drummer hit the snare once to test it - not hard - the Woman In Charge came scuttling over "Oohhh no no no, that's far too loud: we've a tea dance going on next door, you can't disturb them."...

[charic]

I turned up at an outside gig with my Hartke Kilo and Berg NV610 and the sound engineer was telling me to turn down during soundcheck... he looked rather embarrassed when I told him that the amp was muted because I was tuning

[lowhand_mike]

its pain but they pay the money
we played our CIU club and they strangely decisded to put us in the bar area (quite big area but low ceiling), they had the members of another club over for their yearly visit so it was quite packed, the bar manager asked us to turn down as he was getting complaints from a flat across the road, well 2 roads and a small river! we duely did and shortly after he cam over again and asked us to turn down which we did and the third time he asked us to stop. everyone in the bar was into it and a bit miffed, we later found out there had been no phone calls about noise and it was just him who didnt like it, no concern for anyone else. Tw@t

[FuNkShUi]

In situations like that, you wonder why they book the band in the first place right?

[mcnach]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1430227501' post='2759175']
I turned up at an outside gig with my Hartke Kilo and Berg NV610 and the sound engineer was telling me to turn down during soundcheck... he looked rather embarrassed when I told him that the amp was muted because I was tuning
[/quote]

As I brought my 210 and 212 vertical stack speakers into the bar, the sound guy warned me I was too loud.

"Really, before I plug in, you can tell?"

He said yeah, that was too big.

I said "but my amp comes with a volume knob, they're great!".

He went away grumbling.

I wasn't too loud, it sounded great, and I could hear myself beautifully.

Did your sound guy have a brother in Edinburgh?

[stuckinthepod]

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1430230905' post='2759232']
In situations like that, you wonder why they book the band in the first place right?
[/quote]
Exactly.

We had it at the weekend. Booked to play a new pub venue. We turn-up and it’s very “Wetherspoons” - modern pub interior. 50% of the wooden railed stage area is taken over by a fixed all singing dancing DJ booth. Set up the drum kit (enormous rack style kit) an there is so little space I’m off down one side almost behind the drummer, lead guitarist the same on the other side and singer has to set up mic stand on floor level - two steps down from the stage..

We had the first “turn it down” after 3 songs and another 2 songs later. No applause from crowd and a bad night was had by all. Possibly our worst gig ever.

If you are venue that usually only supports talking and the occasional quiet disco or bingo why book a full fat rock covers band playing GNR, Sabbath, Zep etc? You didn’t enjoy it, Your punters didn’t enjoy it and we certainly didn’t enjoy it. For christ sake we are called St0rm K!ngs- what were you expecting - acoustic Carpenters covers!

[FuNkShUi]

Yeh, i'm with you.
Great band name by the way!

[stuckinthepod]

Thanks very much. I only found out after naming the band there is also a USA based band with the same name. I can assure you we are very much the UK band, playing to half empty disinterested pubs all across the north west. lol

...but I do love it.

Edited May 6, 2015 by stuckinthepod

[TimR]

[quote name='stuckinthepod' timestamp='1430909610' post='2765755']

Exactly.

We had it at the weekend. Booked to play a new pub venue. We turn-up and it’s very “Wetherspoons” - modern pub interior. 50% of the wooden railed stage area is taken over by a fixed all singing dancing DJ booth. Set up the drum kit (enormous rack style kit) an there is so little space I’m off down one side almost behind the drummer, lead guitarist the same on the other side and singer has to set up mic stand on floor level - two steps down from the stage..

We had the first “turn it down” after 3 songs and another 2 songs later. No applause from crowd and a bad night was had by all. Possibly our worst gig ever.

If you are venue that usually only supports talking and the occasional quiet disco or bingo why book a full fat rock covers band playing GNR, Sabbath, Zep etc? You didn’t enjoy it, Your punters didn’t enjoy it and we certainly didn’t enjoy it. For christ sake we are called St0rm K!ngs- what were you expecting - acoustic Carpenters covers!
[/quote]

I think it works both ways.

And as I said upthread bands are generally too loud. Loudness isn't an absolute, it's what is appropriate for the venue.

We're very careful which venues we approach and agree to play because we are aware of what is appropriate for some venues is going to be difficult (but not impossible) to achieve as a lot of the time the sound levels are increased by the audience which is beyond our control.

We have played some of our best gigs at relatively low volume in small pubs but that does require a certain amount of musicianship. Particularly from the guitarist and the drummer

.

Edited May 6, 2015 by TimR

[No lust in Jazz]

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1429514488' post='2752013'] I havent got an issue being asked to turn down. We play for the venue/function/party, so if they ask you to turn down, you turn down........... So should this venue state no bands when they take bookings? They didn't seem keen to have one. [/quote]

One issue is when sound checking the sound goes from background ambient to live music in a single step - Yikes is the word. So we have learned to soundcheck with "atmospheric" stuff with lots of free space and backing vocals that we know well, this gives our FOH engineer a level and we can monitor ourselves, when we start we have levels; before too long everybody is on the same page, that live music makes noise, but they're no longer surprised by this..

The same science is used to construct the set; our audience has time to get accustomed to live music, the first few numbers build and this works for us.

[barneyg42]

We had a new venue on Saturday and when we had set up the singer started to get a level for the keyboard player through the pa. He played a few chords and a sprinkly little jazz run and there was immediate muttering about it being "loud" and "we have to be careful with the volume"! The drummer hadn't even touched his kit at that time so we thought we were going to have problems. We're a five piece classic rock band so do tend to crank it a bit. So we plough into the first song at our usual volume and not a word is said all night!! Gig went down a storm, got rebooked and went away with a big smile on our faces!! So strange, it was the landlady making the comments too, she sat watching the band most of the night and got up for a dance too!!! A good ending for a change!

[gadgie]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1429548095' post='2752492'] Goes with the territory. When asked to turn down by a venue owner you turn down. It's not worth it to put to much thought into it and take the fun out of the gig. Blue [/quote]

good post Blue.

Looking some of the posts on this subject it seems forget who's playing and who's paying. Okay on this partiicular occasion the venue was not paying the band.
Saying that, it would drive a saint mad, let alone poor bar staff, to hear 45mins of plink plink, ting ting. 1-2, 1-2, thump thump.. 250 people dancing would soon deading the sound anyway, so just say yes no probs, ans perhaps slowly turn up until everyone is happy

[gadgie]

[quote name='stuckinthepod' timestamp='1430909610' post='2765755']
. For christ sake we are called St0rm K!ngs- what were you expecting - acoustic Carpenters covers!
[/quote]

Well what's the chances of this happening....... I'm listening to some MP3 songs on random. I'm reading your post and get to line above just as the Carperters are stopping ans Stormbinger comes one.
Cue strange scifi music!

[Truckstop]

Every band I've ever been in has rehearsed playing quietly for this exact reason. We'd pick out songs that sound better with rods and brushes and drop songs that don't work. It also makes it easier to achieve a more workable stage sound when we play with full PA support too.

Guitarists should never ever need more than 60w through a single 12 and bassists don't need 500w through a 4x12 monster rig. Pub gigs really don't need to be much louder than bedroom levels and any louder you'd have PA support anyway.

I see different cover bands nearly every week and the one thing I always struggle to hear is the drums!

[stuckinthepod]

[quote name='gadgie' timestamp='1430920682' post='2765947']
Well what's the chances of this happening....... I'm listening to some MP3 songs on random. I'm reading your post and get to line above just as the Carperters are stopping ans Stormbinger comes one.
Cue strange scifi music!
[/quote]

Haha! Nice.

[stuckinthepod]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1430916311' post='2765870']
I think it works both ways.

And as I said upthread bands are generally too loud. Loudness isn't an absolute, it's what is appropriate for the venue.

We're very careful which venues we approach and agree to play because we are aware of what is appropriate for some venues is going to be difficult (but not impossible) to achieve as a lot of the time the sound levels are increased by the audience which is beyond our control.

We have played some of our best gigs at relatively low volume in small pubs but that does require a certain amount of musicianship. Particularly from the guitarist and the drummer

.
[/quote]

I do agree with you. I don't think ours was a volume issue in an of itself more a case of "what have we booked"!! We certainly were not appropriate from the minute we set foot on stage, let alone plugged anything in. We generally play better as a group at a more sensible volume level. As a band we are just hitting our tenth gig and are now finessing the setup and sound to a point where we can get some consistency (own PA/own mixing). The prior gig to the last one we had a very sensible FOH and on stage sound and it sounded the great. The 12 people watching agreed as well.