Amps - a minefield

[Funky Dunky]

Apologies if this gets long-winded.

I posted a 'recommend an amp' thread here a few months ago, and I appreciate all the input (badump-tsh) from forum members who made recommendations. I like to do PUH-LENTY of research well ahead of time before making a purchase, but here's the thing: I'm no further forward. Why? Well, read on....

1) I still don't know what's right for me. My experience of amps and live performance is minimal. I've only played a handful of smallish gigs, and so while I can read and read about amps, tweeters, speakers, ohms and what have you, I still have a fairly limited understanding of what it all means in context and of course, how it sounds.

2) I have a relatively firm idea of what I want - or, what I THINK I want.

a. I want an amp which will have a great, balanced sound - clear lows, defined mids and highs. I want the tone to be warm. I prefer vintage tones. I want my sound to be woody and well-lubricated.

b. At the moment, I'm not in a band. I only play at home. For that reason, a headphone jack would be handy.

c. I would like the amp to be sufficient if I do start gigging. At least enough poke to play in bars and functions. And obviously fairly light and portable.


So do I go combo or head and cab?

Do I go valve or solid state? I've read that a good valve amp can make a cheap bass sound killer, can a good solid state do the same?

Speakers: where do I begin? Do I want 1x10? 1x12? 2x10? 2x12? What are the advantages and disadvantages? What IS a tweeter? Why do I want one, or not one?

A lot of the amps I'm interested in are not available in my neck of the woods (Ayrshire). For example, I'm very interested in Markbass, but I can't get trying them out. They do several amps in my price range and the consensus is that they make fabulous amps. I'm limited to YouTube for listening to them, and what I hear sounds good, but I want to hear what MY basses sound like through a Markbass amp. For that reason, I'm limited to whatever the local shops stock if I want to hear my basses through any kind of amp.

A question about Markbass, to the Markbass users/afficionados: as per my criteria above, which Markbass amps fit the bill?

Feel free also to recommend other amps that you think would suit me. I'm looking to spend an absolute max of £700, and not cash so unfortunately a second hand bargain would have to pass me by. I saw a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 and Focus cab on eBay for £499 and my wee heart shattered because I would love a Genz Benz, that strikes me as a heck of a price but I'm not Frankie Flush.

Thanks for reading.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Funky Dunky

[ColinB]

Fender Rumble 200 Combo fits the bill, me thinks. Add an extension cab if you start playing bigger venues.

Edited April 29, 2015 by ColinB

[Happy Jack]

[b][i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"I want the tone to be warm. I prefer vintage tones. I want my sound to be woody and well-lubricated." + "W[/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][i]hich Markbass amps fit the bill?"[/i] = Does not compute.[/font][/color][/b]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]To my ears, the signature Markbass sound is precisely the antithesis of what you're looking for. Someone else will be along in a minute to disagree with that.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And there's your problem. It's all in the ears, and we all have different ears.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why are you buying an amp if you don't know whether or not you'll be gigging and (obviously) you cannot know what you'll be playing?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]My suggestion would be to buy a PJB Bass Buddy and a really nice 1x10 cab. The Bass Buddy is a superb headphone amp (as well as being many other things besides), the EQ section is easily powerful enough to give you whatever degree of warm woodiness you need, and used as a bass amp it turns out 10W which is just what you need for home use.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]If you buy the right 1x10 (I'd recommend a Barefaced Midget) then you can plonk the appropriate gigging amp on top of it when you're ready, and when you know what sort of amp you really need.[/font][/color]

Edited April 29, 2015 by Happy Jack

[Funky Dunky]

I dunno, there's a guy called Pertybass on youtube uses a Markbass and his tones all sound woody and warm, but as you say it's all about ears and perception.

I'm buying an amp because I need an amp! I'm looking at where I am and where I hope to be in the future and was simply looking for pointers from people who knew amps from their own experience. I hoped maybe somebody could match me up based on the parameters I've offered above. I know it's probably vague but I'm just looking for help. I play fingerstyle, mostly funk and disco but not Jamerson flatwound. Vintage may be the wrong term to use as it might imply 50s/60s tone to some people. I'm not rocking flatwound strings or anything, but nor am I using fuzz or high gain modern distorted sounds. I did say amps are a minefield, and you can see why. I know the sounds I like from hearing other bassists, and they use Markbass, Genz Benz, Aguilar......all pretty pricey amps, but the Markbass appeals going by what I've heard so I wondered if there was a combo that fits the bill in terms of expansion to smaller gigs.

[chris_b]

Are there music shops in Glasgow? Make it a day out.

Go to the next Bass Bash, run by ACG and over to east of you. There are other BCers in Ayrshire see where they are gigging. Go and check them out.

I think you could be over thinking this. In reality if you're playing at home anything will sound OK, but if you're intending to gig you'll need to go down the larger and expandable gear route. I'd get a modular rig that you can use at home and in a band.

I wouldn't get a combo because you're potentially at the start of an upgrade path and IMO separates are the best way to go if you're upgrading. Something like a Hartke LH500 from the BC classifieds would be a good start. Add a 112 or a 210. When you want to gig get another 112 or 210. I wouldn't discount Markbass. I thought mine was warm, with a vintage tone, but there are a couple of Barefaced cabs in the classifieds. They are a great 1 cab solution.

[Mudpup]

So do I go combo or head and cab?
Head and cab for flexibility - its easier to swap something out if your'e not getting along with it.....

Do I go valve or solid state? I've read that a good valve amp can make a cheap bass sound killer, can a good solid state do the same?
You wont get a valve head/cab for £700. Nothing wrong at all with solid state heads. And you can make most things sound valvey enough with £50 worth of preamp/stompbox things.

Speakers: where do I begin? Do I want 1x10? 1x12? 2x10? 2x12? What are the advantages and disadvantages? What IS a tweeter? Why do I want one, or not one?
If you're going to be gigging you'll need at least a 1x12 and probably more like a 2x10. In general, 2 of any speakers sounds bigger than 1 of any speaker. If youre staying in the bedroom a 1x10 will be fine. As a very poor rule of thumb at the cheper end of the market, the smaller the speaker the tighter the sound. 10's are focussed and 15's are whumpy sounding - although this all changes when you start getting more expensive cabs as the cab design and speaker spec will determine the sound more. Tweeters add a bit of sparkle at the top end - sounds like you don't need one for the sound in your head.


[u][b]And heres what I would do -[/b][/u]

Spend £35 on a Zoom B1ON multi effect - it has a headphone and auxiliary function that will enable you to carry on practicing at home. It will also double as a preamp pedal when you get your rig and give you valvey goodness. You also get a bunch of amp models in it to help you figure out what you like.
This will keep you playing while you save up cash to buy something secondhand from here. Don't buy a new amp - theres a good chance you may not get on with it as you're not completely decided on what you want and you'll lose your trousers when you sell it on.

If you pick up something secondhand, you can usually flip it for about what you paid for so you don't lose out. Think of it as equipment rental if you lose £50 or so....

Gear wise, I would recommend a Hartke LH500 amp (along with the Zoom to provide headphones function) and perhaps an Ashdown cab. Its warm, clear and pretty straightforward to get a good sound out of. And plenty loud enough to gig with.
And you should come in well within your budget.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Mudpup

[Funky Dunky]

I will research the PJB Bass Buddy and Barefaced Midget. From your description it sounds like that combination offers a versatility which would suit me. Thanks.

[Funky Dunky]

Thank you, this is great feedback (badump-tsh!) I am learning already! I have much research to do. I will keep my eyes peeled for the next Bass Bash, too.

[ColinB]

You might want to read [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/261020-ncombod-fender-rumble-500-v3-combo/"]this[/url], it sounds like just what you're looking for.

[largo]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1430297437' post='2759883']
Are there music shops in Glasgow? Make it a day out.

Go to the next Bass Bash, run by ACG and over to east of you. There are other BCers in Ayrshire see where they are gigging. Go and check them out.

I think you could be over thinking this. In reality if you're playing at home anything will sound OK, but if you're intending to gig you'll need to go down the larger and expandable gear route. I'd get a modular rig that you can use at home and in a band.
[/quote]

This.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1430296700' post='2759873']

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]To my ears, the signature Markbass sound is precisely the antithesis of what you're looking for. Someone else will be along in a minute to disagree with that.[/font][/color]

[/quote]
[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1430297437' post='2759883']

I wouldn't discount Markbass. I thought mine was warm, with a vintage tone ...
[/quote]

Told you so.

[Paul S]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1430296700' post='2759873']

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And there's your problem. It's all in the ears, and we all have different ears.[/font][/color]

[/quote]

+1000

I really like TC Electronic amps, some people can't stand them.

Once the band kicks in most of the subtle nuances of different amp tones can be drowned out anyway so that it why it is important to get what sounds good to you as you and your amp will spend a lot of time alone together on cosy nights in.

[BassBunny]

Next Moffat Bass Bash is about a year off, so you would need to be very patient.
I'm with Mudpup. Minimal outlay until you know what you want.
It might pay to get a train down to Bass Direct and check out everything Marc has on offer.
Could be considered wasted money but could stop you making the wrong decition and wasting even more.

[Skybone]

Yup, sounds like a trip into Glasgow's musical emporiums would be highly recommended, maybe contact them first & see what they have in stock and what you can try out.

I agree with getting a modelling pedal, something like the Zoom B1/B3/MS60-B, Vox Stomplab in the interim. You can try out different amp & cab models & tweak them to get sounds you like, as well as using them with headphones/mp3 inputs etc.

Similarly, I'm looking at amps as well, but here in the Highlands, we have even less choice than you. Though saying that, you said you want something light and portable which would rule out a valve amp immediately IMO (as much as I like them!). The current crop of Class D amps with Neodymium speakers sound ideal. Having had amps with 15's in the past, I'm looking at combo's loaded with at least 2 x 10's. I've been using an old Peavey amp with 2 4x10 cabs in the rehearsal room we use, and although it's old and knackered, it sounds pretty good. The band is pretty new too, having only had 3 rehearsals so far (hence looking for a new amp).

I like the look of the Ashdown Rootmaster 420 2x10 combo and a few others, and regularly check eBay & the local Gumtree for anything second hand.

[JTUK]

If you don't know what you want, then start with what you like.
That, in no way,.. gets you a good sound but it is a place to start
and you'll build a reference.
You only really know you sound good when enough people tell you
and you learn to trust certain references. After a while, you'll then know.
That reminds me of a funny story I heard of someone trying to tell
a room full of players his rig was great and better than anything else...
when he was the only one who thought that...
It would have been helpful if they'd told him there and then to his face..
but the feeling was that he wouldn't have listened anyway...

Edited April 29, 2015 by JTUK

[FinnDave]

For ordinary pub gigs, rehearsals and home use, I have an Ashdown EB180-12, decent little amp and loud enough for my purposes. You can find them second hand for under £100. I used mine last night at an open mic with my band and guests. These days I prefer to DI for most gigs, though, sounds good, takes up less space on 'stage' and saves me carrying more stuff to and from the car.

I also have an Ashdown ABM500 and Barefaced Super Twin for larger gigs, but haven't felt the need to use them this year, DI covers everything except informal jams and then the little Ashdown does fine. Beware of buying more than you need!

[Funky Dunky]

[quote name='ColinB' timestamp='1430298248' post='2759895']
You might want to read [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/261020-ncombod-fender-rumble-500-v3-combo/"]this[/url], it sounds like just what you're looking for.
[/quote]

Hmmmmmm...........interesting. I will definitely have to try one of those.

Guys, you've given me sound advice (badump-tsh!) and lots to consider. I will make the trip to Glasgow and test everything I can get my hands on. I think there's even a trip over the border on the cards to try some of the amps which I can't trace up 'ere.

The Fender combo and Hartke heads have certainly whet my appetite. I would prefer a head and cab combo but wasn't sure if I could afford quality. Matching a head to cab sounds like another minefield.

[Funky Dunky]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1430306826' post='2760029']Beware of buying more than you need!
[/quote]

Good point.

[simonlittle]

I'd highly recommend an Ampeg PF500 and matching 1x15" cab. Maybe the PF350 head if you want something less powerful. Both have headphone jacks for practice and you can mount the head to the cab for flip-top storage. The 15" cab sounds lovely and warm with plenty of vintage ooomph. It has a tweeter too which you can turn up or down on the cab itself to suit your sound.
I've had one for a few years now and done all kinds of shows from large club dates to medium festival stages and it always sounds great. It sounds like a valve amp but it's not.
And you can add a second cab at a later date if you do much bigger/louder shows but I've not felt the need.
And the best thing? They're really cheap! I got the head and cab in a bundle deal from GAK for about £550. Best amp deal going. Definitely worth checking out. I promise you won't be disappointed.

[Norris]

The Fender Rumble 500 combo could tick a lot of boxes for you. There again I'm probably biased, being very pleased with mine. It's cheap, light and powerful and even has a headphone socket

[Skybone]

The Rumble 500 is on my "possibles" list as well.

[Funky Dunky]

Been swotting up on your suggestions, chaps, and the Fender Rumble 500 has the lead (badump-tsh!) at the minute in terms of price and features. I can't find anywhere around with one in stock, unfortunately, they all seem to stock the smaller Rumbles but not the big daddy. Andertons have them for £480 - seems like a bargain for what this amp has to offer. Is it really only 36lbs?

The Ampeg PF has bags of appeal, and it's a really smart set up but I will need to play one. The videos on YouTube seemed a little bit thin and toppy-sounding for my taste but maybe some judicious knob-twiddling (matron!) could dial that out.

The Ashdown isn't bad either. I will play all of these if I can and make up my own mind.

Oh, and I've seen people drawing comparisons between the Fender Rumble and Genz Benz. Do they share circuitry or components?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Funky Dunky

[Mudpup]

Be careful with a secondhand Ampeg PF500 - theres a lot of documented issues with them going pop. If buying new, go for a supplier with good warranty backup just in case. Personally I wouldn't touch a used one. There are less issues it seems with the PF350 and PF800.

Your original post said you wanted warm, woody and vintage flavour - I don't think a Genz Shuttle will do that particularly well but a Streamliner probably will. They popup fairly frequently on this site used.

Fender bought out Genz fairly recently and theres a feeling they used similar inherited technology in the newer Rumbles. I haven't played one personally though to compare.

[Funky Dunky]

Ah yes, I read that about the Ampegs in YouTube comments and it was off-putting. The accusations were that because of the lowish price point, cheap materials had been used and it was a common problem.

Interesting about the Fender/Genz situation. I'm even more tempted now!

[Pembo]

Markbass on it's own will probably be too clean for that warm, vintage, woody tone. However, Markbass with a sansamp, or even behringer VT pedal, that will nail it.