TC Group bought by Behringer (including TC Electronic)

[72deluxe]

Just noticed this after rumours at Frankfurt Musikmesse - [url="http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/index.php/news/read/music-group-acquires-tc-group/019967"]http://www.mi-pro.co...tc-group/019967[/url]

As Music Group has bought MIDAS, Turbosound and now has TC Group (including LAB.Gruppen, Tannoy and TC Electronic), I can only imagine what will happen with TC Electronic's range of excellent bass gear. I hope there isn't a race to the bottom price-wise (or production wise, let's hope production isn't moved to Behringer City in China?), and TC Electronic don't start releasing the TC Nuke 2024 Pro amp....

Edited April 30, 2015 by 72deluxe

[Monckyman]

There may be some crossover products but it hasn't done Midas any harm and the behringer X32 is a great example of behringers new quality control.

[72deluxe]

I do wonder if Midas has suffered because if you compare the M32 with the X32 (and their product pages), they're identical which means Midas have either gone downmarket, or Behringer has gone upmarket.
With the Midas name now splashed on all Behringer products, this has surely diluted Midas' reputation? If you look at the Sound on Sound review for the ADA8200 (which has "Midas" all over it), it is apparent from the measured A to D converter performance that it isn't REALLY a Midas product (more "budget-conscious" converters used I think, less dynamic range). I thought all the original Midas engineering team in Kidderminster has vanished and gone elsewhere?

It'll be interesting to see what happens with TC and Lab.Gruppen - I have already seen photoshop'd pictures with the PLM2000 having Behringer's logo put on it haha

Edited April 30, 2015 by 72deluxe

[discreet]

You see a lot of stuff on the interwebs about Behringer and their alleged low-quality and low-reliability, but it's worth saying once again that they do manufacture and distribute more products than every other brand put together, so statistically you're going to see more instances of Behringer failure than anything else. Of course people don't post anything at all if their products are performing OK, why would they?

For what it's worth, the Behringer products I've used have all performed perfectly well with no issues. I think I might buy that £99 bass amp for the hell of it and kick it around a bit, see how that goes...

And another thing, I had cause to use a TC bass amp as backline and I did not like it one bit. It didn't blow up, however.

Edited April 30, 2015 by discreet

[72deluxe]

Good point. It is interesting to see on tour-riders how many state "No Behringer" for equipment; the X32 might have changed all that though! Their new range of wifi-enabled mixers look interesting and might be a worthwhile investment if only to stop my singer fiddling with the mixer without a clue.

Which amp is that? Is that the one named like a Bugati?

[discreet]

[quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1430401463' post='2761044']
Which amp is that? Is that the one named like a Bugati?
[/quote]

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_bvt4500h.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_bvt4500h.htm[/url]

[72deluxe]

Ah thanks. I thought you meant the Bugera (also a Music Group brand, aka Behringer) VEYRON TUBE BV1001T. But that's a little pricier, and looks like a component from a "hifi separates" set that were all the rage in the 80s.

[ras52]

Oh good, now I'll be able to retire comfortably when I sell my "Pre-Behringer" TC gear

[yorks5stringer]

Aren't the TC Toneprint Amps/combos made in China anyway?

[paul_5]

This.

[blue]

I only know Behringer as a provider of inexpensive low end gear. However that was many years ago (early 2000s).

Blue

[Phil Starr]

I'm sceptical but not cynical about Behringer, like most people I have bits and pieces of Behringer gear, 1204 mixer, EP2500 power amp a set of BD205 monitors the odd mic and probably others I've forgotten. The only problems i've had are a lead breaking on the mic and a power supply going down on one of the BD205's, replaced under guarantee. About par for the course, I've had similar problems with Harke, Ashdown, Peavey TC and others over the years but most stuff including the Behringer works pretty much without fault for years.

My experience isn't a particularly huge representative sample but it wouldn't be fair to say Behringer stuff is particularly poorly made or unreliable, just built to a budget.

If anything Behringer already do far too much, very similarly specced gear as they try to be all things to all people. There product range is almost as confusing as Fender's! It'd make sense to make a range of different quality products clearly branded so you know what you are buying.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating of course, let's see if TC's standards fall.

[ahpook]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1430401312' post='2761042']
You see a lot of stuff on the interwebs about Behringer and their alleged low-quality and low-reliability, but it's worth saying once again that they do manufacture and distribute more products than every other brand put together, so statistically you're going to see more instances of Behringer failure than anything else. Of course people don't post anything at all if their products are performing OK, why would they?
[/quote]

Very well put.

Another vote in favour of Behringer - I've never had a problem with any of the kit I've used. One of their EP2500 power amps was part of my backline for a number of years - performed well and took plenty of abuse.

I'm sure that it won't be long before the stigma attached to 'Made in China' will disappear, just as 'Made in Japan' did many many years ago.

Edited April 30, 2015 by ahpook

[72deluxe]

I have had a fair share of Behringer stuff and some stuff failed on me, some stuff was alright. I only wonder with companies like Lab.Gruppen occupying very high ends of the pro sound amplifier market how the low-end Behringer stuff will affect it. [The power ratings for Behringer amps are somewhat optimistic, to put it politely. Take the lid off a Behringer amp and see how much of it is air :-) ]

With the two occupying vastly different areas of the market, I hope it isn't a repeat of the Midas "rebrand". (Ie A Behringer euromixer isn't comparable to any pre-Behringer midas gear. It isn't really an XL4, or a Verona etc despite the newer stuff being labelled Midas.) That was my only concern/thought/musing.

Also, "made in China" isn't really bad - "made in China with cheaper components" is the real problem.

Edited April 30, 2015 by 72deluxe

[dincz]

[quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1430396730' post='2760986']let's hope production isn't moved to Behringer City in China[/quote]

Having their own manufacturing facility in China enabled Behringer to up their quality control, having previously been at the mercy of their Chinese subcontractors.

I've never owned any of their early Chinese-made gear but never had problems with the later stuff.

[warwickhunt]

I've owned/used a few Behringer (PA) products and my only gripe was the Signal to Noise Ratio, which was just too much noise for my liking!

[Thunderbird]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1430401312' post='2761042']
You see a lot of stuff on the interwebs about Behringer and their alleged low-quality and low-reliability, but it's worth saying once again that they do manufacture and distribute more products than every other brand put together, so statistically you're going to see more instances of Behringer failure than anything else. Of course people don't post anything at all if their products are performing OK, why would they?

For what it's worth, the Behringer products I've used have all performed perfectly well with no issues. I think I might buy that £99 bass amp for the hell of it and kick it around a bit, see how that goes...

And another thing, I had cause to use a TC bass amp as backline and I did not like it one bit. It didn't blow up, however.
[/quote] This really do not know why people slag off Behringer so much IMO I think some of the gear is great For example my Behringer head blows my old TC head out of the water and it was less than half the price of the TC granted the Behringer is bloody heavy though but sound and performance is fantastic

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1430401312' post='2761042']
You see a lot of stuff on the interwebs about Behringer and their alleged low-quality and low-reliability, but it's worth saying once again that they do manufacture and distribute more products than every other brand put together, so statistically you're going to see more instances of Behringer failure than anything else. Of course people don't post anything at all if their products are performing OK, why would they?

For what it's worth, the Behringer products I've used have all performed perfectly well with no issues. I think I might buy that £99 bass amp for the hell of it and kick it around a bit, see how that goes...

And another thing, I had cause to use a TC bass amp as backline and I did not like it one bit. It didn't blow up, however.
[/quote]The guitarist (and studio owner) and I were sying the very same thing the other day! Never had a problem with their stuff!

[itsmedunc]

The rehearsal studio is being renovated at the moment so we needed some mics. Bought 3 Behringer in a case with clips for £25.00. They do everything the SM58's do in the studio. Sound more than good enough to rehearse with and we can get more volume out of them before feedback too. I dont think you could abuse them as much though. Definitely not as robust.

[mcnach]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1430401312' post='2761042']
You see a lot of stuff on the interwebs about Behringer and their alleged low-quality and low-reliability, but it's worth saying once again that they do manufacture and distribute more products than every other brand put together, so statistically you're going to see more instances of Behringer failure than anything else. Of course people don't post anything at all if their products are performing OK, why would they?

For what it's worth, the Behringer products I've used have all performed perfectly well with no issues. I think I might buy that £99 bass amp for the hell of it and kick it around a bit, see how that goes...

And another thing, I had cause to use a TC bass amp as backline and I did not like it one bit. It didn't blow up, however.
[/quote]

I used a Behringer BX4500 as my first bass amp head. It was heavy, the fan wasn't the quietest, but I liked the sound.

I have had only ONE amp head failing on me, during soundcheck, with a nice cloud of smoke. It was not the Behringer, it was a TC RH450!
To be fair, TC reacted really fast and I was able to collect a new RH450 locally three days later. Now, that's service!

My little kick-about practice amp is a Behringer BXL450A. It doesn't sound half bad either. I had it since 2007, and I use it all the time. Never missed a beat.

See, it's boring to post about success stories... so I won't continue with my Behringer UB1002 mixer, my Behringer V-Amp2, my Behringer AC112 guitar combo... etc

[discreet]

[quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1430401849' post='2761053']
Ah thanks. I thought you meant the Bugera (also a Music Group brand, aka Behringer) VEYRON TUBE BV1001T. But that's a little pricier, and looks like a component from a "hifi separates" set that were all the rage in the 80s.
[/quote]

I think the Veyron is a clone of the Streamliner, only with a compressor.

[tauzero]

[quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1430415452' post='2761244']
I have had a fair share of Behringer stuff and some stuff failed on me, some stuff was alright. I only wonder with companies like Lab.Gruppen occupying very high ends of the pro sound amplifier market how the low-end Behringer stuff will affect it. [The power ratings for Behringer amps are somewhat optimistic, to put it politely. Take the lid off a Behringer amp and see how much of it is air :-) ]
[/quote]

"Solid state" doesn't mean the whole case is packed full, you know...

Some people have actually done some research into Behringer power ratings, instead of just parroting what they'd heard on the interwebs, and it turned out that they were accurate (although if they don't actually say RMS, they're peak, which is 1.414 times RMS).

[url="http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/213071-behringer-inuke-nu3000-measurements.html"]http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/213071-behringer-inuke-nu3000-measurements.html[/url]

[url="http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html"]http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html[/url]

[url="http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1359039-behringer-inuke-nu3000-first-impressions-i-need-replacement-fan-suggestions.html"]http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1359039-behringer-inuke-nu3000-first-impressions-i-need-replacement-fan-suggestions.html[/url] (post by A9X-308)

[dincz]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1430471298' post='2761669']although if they don't actually say RMS, they're peak, which is 1.414 times RMS).
[/quote]

That number's good for voltage or current but square it for power i.e. 2

[discreet]

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1430472476' post='2761694']
That number's good for voltage or current but square it for power i.e. 2
[/quote]

So the Behringer iNUKE NU3000 power amp in reality provides only 1500W RMS @ 4ohms? Feeble!

[discreet]

[quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1430424491' post='2761396']
Bought 3 Behringer in a case with clips for £25.00. They do everything the SM58's do in the studio. Sound more than good enough to rehearse with and we can get more volume out of them before feedback too. I dont think you could abuse them as much though. Definitely not as robust.
[/quote]

I bought those too and record drums with them (along with a t.bone kick mic) and get excellent results. The SM58 clones are actually better than the Sure versions in a lot of ways, but you're right, they're not exactly made of glass but I wouldn't want to tour heavily with them. On the other hand you can get a LOT of XM8500 mics for SM58 money, so...