Vertical stacked 2x10 options

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1432572792' post='2782834']
The only flaw being that a pair of such cabs stacked vertically would, by default, have the full range drivers (one from each pair) together as the centre pair of a vertical line of 4. [/quote]That it would. It's not a flaw. There's even a name for that driver configuration, the W-M-M-W, altough in this case the Ms (midrange) would be full range, not pure midrange, drivers.
[quote]Always thought vertical was a myth for low frequencies[/quote]It would be, which is why I have never promulgated that notion. But it's all a matter of scale. While no sensible bass rig would ever be large enough for low frequencies to be affected in a major way by horizontal versus vertical placement, it could be a concern with a large PA system. A dozen or more large subs arranged side by side across the front of a stage would be an example, unless it was the operators intent in so doing to limit the horizontal dispersion of the array.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[JTUK]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1432579880' post='2782984']
................
It would be, which is why I have never promulgated that notion. But it's all a matter of scale. While no sensible bass rig would ever be large enough for low frequencies to be affected in a major way by horizontal versus vertical placement, it could be a concern with a large PA system. A dozen or more large subs arranged side by side across the front of a stage would be an example, unless it was the operators intent in so doing to limit the horizontal dispersion of the array.
[/quote]

Agree. P.A is a different deal altogether.

[Marvin]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1432579880' post='2782984']
That it would. It's not a flaw. There's even a name for that driver configuration, the W-M-M-W, altough in this case the Ms (midrange) would be full range, not pure midrange, drivers.
It would be, which is why I have never promulgated that notion. But it's all a matter of scale. While no sensible bass rig would ever be large enough for low frequencies to be affected in a major way by horizontal versus vertical placement, it could be a concern with a large PA system. A dozen or more large subs arranged side by side across the front of a stage would be an example, unless it was the operators intent in so doing to limit the horizontal dispersion of the array.
[/quote]

Turning to a 210 bass cab, not the BF retro as that's a bit different. At what sort of frequency does dispersion become an issue for a 210 cab? And how important are these frequencies, if at all, to most bass player's tone?

I have a 210 combo at present so would be interested to know. A previous 210 combo I had I used to stand on a table for gigs. The speakers were aligned horizontally and seemed to work for me getting it up off the ground. My current combo has the drivers more or less vertically aligned.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1432729550' post='2784322']
Turning to a 210 bass cab, not the BF retro as that's a bit different. At what sort of frequency does dispersion become an issue for a 210 cab? And how important are these frequencies, if at all, to most bass player's tone?[/quote]If you mean by placing drivers side by side, where comb filtering is concerned they should not be more than one wavelength center to center. With a pair of tens set 11 inches center to center that's 1.2kHz, right smack dab in the middle of the midrange. From there on up comb filtering will occur.
Even below that frequency side by side drivers has an effect. The dispersion angle below the 1 wavelength center to center distance is more than halved compared to a single driver. At 100Hz, where dispersion is nominally 360 degrees anyway, that's not an issue. At 800 Hz, where dispersion of a single driver may be 180 degrees or less, it's not the best scenario. If I was to make a .5 alignment using tens I'd low pass the second driver around 500Hz. Since some 75% of the power bandwidth lies below 500Hz there's no need to use both drivers higher than that.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[sshorepunk]

If I could just stick my nose in here for a moment, with the question below about the Berg's

[quote name='sshorepunk' timestamp='1432375343' post='2780922']
Did the Berg CN's replace the AE's?

Then theres the HD's, whats the difference part from the weight from the CN's, anyone A-B'd them?

I figured a pair of Berg' 2x10 and one of those little Demeter amps would be a killer rig!

Tony
[/quote]

[Marvin]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1432735908' post='2784406']
If you mean by placing drivers side by side, where comb filtering is concerned they should not be more than one wavelength center to center. With a pair of tens set 11 inches center to center that's 1.2kHz, right smack dab in the middle of the midrange. From there on up comb filtering will occur.
Even below that frequency side by side drivers has an effect. The dispersion angle below the 1 wavelength center to center distance is more than halved compared to a single driver. At 100Hz, where dispersion is nominally 360 degrees anyway, that's not an issue. At 800 Hz, where dispersion of a single driver may be 180 degrees or less, it's not the best scenario. If I was to make a .5 alignment using tens I'd low pass the second driver around 500Hz. Since some 75% of the power bandwidth lies below 500Hz there's no need to use both drivers higher than that.
[/quote]

Thanks Bill

[JTUK]

[quote name='sshorepunk' timestamp='1432741474' post='2784486']
If I could just stick my nose in here for a moment, with the question below about the Berg's
[/quote]

I think the AE112's were the first Berg NEO solution and then HD came about because Berg didn't like the hike in NEO prices so
decided on a non-NEO range.... Once they saw that NEO wasn't off the table price-wise anymore the CN was the NEO answer
again. Whether BErg led or where led on the NEO question is another thing, but I think the CN is a revised NEO offering.

I played thru both and if I had the AE's, I wouldn't be that keen paying for new CN's... but if I wanted a new NEO config, then they would be
one of the very first I'd look at. In fact, I'm not sure I'd look past Berg CN.

Having said that, not that keen on NEO full stop, but the Bergs are the best NEO that I've used/played thru

[mrn1989]

I DID IT!!!

I stacked my two Markbass Traveller 210 cabs vertically and I actually preferred having at head height, I could hear myself in the mix much better, with the cabs 6inches away from the wall the ports didn't suffer I still had good bottom

[sshorepunk]

Update!

Not a lot to update on at the moment, still got my old rig, but have been watching a few threads on here and talking to a few people

A while back I found out that "The great British Bass Lounge" was a few miles from me, so had a drive over yesterday to look at some other options.
Drew is, I think, the only dealer stocking bare faced cabs, and whilst I have seen a few of these on stage with bands, not actually had chance to get my hands on them. He is waiting for stock at the moment, so didn't have the super compact I wanted to try, even though I was initially looking at two 2x10's, I'm not discounting two 1x12!
He did have a Retro 2x10, I had looked at these, but was initially put off by the 12 ohm option that was needed to run two cabs. I really like the foot print and weight of these, going back very soon to test against the super compact. If the Retro 2x10 does what its supposed to do, it should suit me well, we shall see!
I am going to be changing my whole rig, so I'm in a good position here, not building a rig around an existing amp, starting from scratch again! So going to be having a look at the GK heads, MB and MB fusion!
So plenty to consider if I go with Retro 2x10, if I run one 12 ohm cab I'm going to be getting a lot less power out of what ever amp I go for!
Another amp option has surfaced, that has got my attention, the Mesa Subway D-800, be interesting to hear this! It will run at 2 ohm meaning I could run two 4 ohm Retro 2x10's
I'm not in a rush here, which is good, my band is "regrouping" after a change of vocalist, so have time to get it right!

Tony

[Bankai]

I used to have two Ashdown MAG cabs vertically stacked on their ends with a 4U rackmounted amp on top. There were no issues, so it should be fine!

[Alec]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1430828805' post='2764928']
My only worry is stability, it'd be very tall and thin with a heavy amp on top. Don't reckon it would take much to send the entire thing toppling over.
[/quote]
There's no law that says an amp needs to be on top of cabs, remember...

[Thunderpaws]

[quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1431089521' post='2767704']
I haven't gigged this set-up yet but my motives for buying it were the same as the op.
It took me a while to find the second cab but got there in the end & it's very stable stacked.
[/quote]

I have one 210 like that and would love another. They are uber hard to come by.

[Horizontalste]

[quote name='Thunderpaws' timestamp='1443960298' post='2878958']


I have one 210 like that and would love another. They are uber hard to come by.
[/quote]

They sure are, I think that's testament to their quality.
I was lucky really, after missing out on a couple I finally landed the second one from here. They do crop up from time to time but the 2/10 seems to be the one folk hold on to, I can see, hear & feel why :-)