Slimming down a Shergold replacement neck

[Andyjr1515]

Hi

I don't know if any of you saw [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/259471-neck-reduction-proscons/"]Paul S's recent post[/url] enquiring about slimming down the neck of an old favourite of his, a lovely Shergold Marathon.

Problem was - and I think we've all had this at one time or another - it wasn't being played because it wasn't a comfortable fit for him. In this case, it is because the neck at the nut is the more 'traditional' 44mm...very wide compared with most of the more modern 4 strings at around at c 38mm. (There is a small irony here, because the 'under-wraps' project I'm working on at the moment has a 44mm neck).

I thought it was worth posting the thread because it is a common issue many of us face...mod or sell? Also, it's a way of keeping Paul up to date with the progress.

The challenge here was - and you can see the thread:[list]
[*]To slim down the existing neck is a one-way trip
[*]To do it 'properly' is expensive. Frets out, binding off, slim down, re-fret, re-bind. Impact on the resale value but less than the next option...
[*]To do it the cheap way - lose most of the binding and just sand it, binding, frets 'n all. Takes the value off both the neck and the bass.
[/list]
Paul's solution is none of the above and is rather elegant:[list]
[*]Buy a modern replica replacement neck
[*]Give THAT one to the crazy bloke in Derbyshire to attack with his sanding block. Go for functionality rather than authenticity - ie, lose the binding
[*]Play what is now a comfortable bass but which still retains the vibe until...
[*]...sometime in the future, simply refit the original neck to keep, or sell, an original beauty.
[/list]
So, on the back of that, Paul HAS sent it (and the original as a template for the pocket measurements, etc) to the crazy bloke in Derbyshire who is now rummaging around for the biggest sanding block and coarsest sandpaper any self-respecting bass has ever been subjected to

Here are the two necks:



Clearly the new neck is unfinished and a basic copy, but there are a number of things in its favour:[list]
[*]It does have the same 'vibe' I particularly like the use of thin, period correct, frets
[*]The name badge, while just a printed sticker (the original is a thick perspex piece that is [i]nailed [/i]onto the headstock) is actually a perfect replica of the original's logo
[*]Fret dots are spot on
[*]It is bound and side dotted, albeit this will be largely sanded off
[*]It has a modern accessible truss-rod (the original is in the heel)
[/list]
Head shape isn't exactly the same and is a little narrower but definitely good enough. The heel also appears to be the correct size.

A detail - not sure of the functional value - is the unusual shape of the heel:

Here's the original:


...and here's the replacement:



Won't affect the performance but intrigued to the purpose of the extra machining.

Then again, on the original, what on earth is this great big hole for?:




It'll be a few days before I attack the poor little thing but I'll post the carnage when I do

Andy

Edited May 5, 2015 by Andyjr1515

[Paul S]

Yeehah!

I think the hole was to house a round 'Hayman' insert, as they shared the same bits for a while in the early Shergold days.

Picture nicked off 'tnet:

[Andyjr1515]

Ahah! That Moriarty is a cunning blighter!

[MoonBassAlpha]

The Shergold I had had the "sticker under Varnish" logo as standard, I think it is just slightly later, after the old Hayman stock had got used up, so not exactly inauthentic, just not exactly period-correct for that particular bass

[tauzero]

How do you adjust the truss rod on the replica? On the original (or the Hayman 40/40, anyway) you went through a slot on the rear of the body with a special tool which was a cranked piece of metal and turned the wheel with that. The wheel isn't visible on the replica.

[PlungerModerno]

It looks like there's some sort of slot cut in the headstock of the replacement neck - in the usual truss rod adjustment location.

I think that might be the answer to your question tauzero. I could be way off of course. The heel of the replacement neck is fairly odd so I feel all bets are off as far as specific design features.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1431287195' post='2769689']
How do you adjust the truss rod on the replica? On the original (or the Hayman 40/40, anyway) you went through a slot on the rear of the body with a special tool which was a cranked piece of metal and turned the wheel with that. The wheel isn't visible on the replica.
[/quote]
Hi, Tauzero & PlungerModerno

Yes - as you say, the original has a 'capstan' accessible in a slot under the heel. And as PlungerModerno rightly says, the replacement has a conventional allen-key access at the headstock....I need to find out what Paul's preference is with that in terms of leaving it as is or covering it with a bent cover.

In the meantime, great progress this morning on this...thread coming shortly

Andy

[Paul S]

Leave as is please, Andy. Looking forward to the pics!

Edited May 11, 2015 by Paul S

[discreet]

Very interesting... I await more posts with bated underpants.

[tauzero]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1431351078' post='2770275']
Yes - as you say, the original has a 'capstan' accessible in a slot under the heel. And as PlungerModerno rightly says, the replacement has a conventional allen-key access at the headstock....I need to find out what Paul's preference is with that in terms of leaving it as is or covering it with a bent cover.
[/quote]

I just realised that you did cover that in your last bullet point in your original post about the necks. I was very glad that I only had to adjust the truss rod very rarely (although it is a better system than the daft Fender one, but not by much).

[Paul S]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431351465' post='2770288']
Very interesting... I await more posts with bated underpants.
[/quote]

Glad you didn't say 'baited underpants' - you never know what you might catch.

[discreet]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1431352089' post='2770314']
Glad you didn't say 'baited underpants' - you never know what you might catch.
[/quote]

You name it, I've probably already caught it.

Edited May 11, 2015 by discreet

[Andyjr1515]

The replica neck sat at 42.5mm at the nut, with the target width a 'Jazz' 38mm. That's the same as my Squier. Interestingly, at the heel, the Shergold is quite a bit [i]slimmer[/i]than the Squier...both the replica and original sit at 55.8mm vs the Squier at 59.9.


Bearing in mind that Paul's preference was to go for functional rather than replica, we had already decided to scrub the binding. As it turns out, that was easy!:



Two minutes and some careful thumbnail work later:



That took 2mm off the fretboard width for starters In terms of the nut fret itself, it left therefore a very small amount to sand off:




I started with 80 grit sandpaper on a sanding block to get the fretboard and frets the correct width up to the heel:




Then - because maple is rock hard and life is too short - a cabinet scraper to re-establish the profile curve:




Finally, sanded the profile smooth the old-fashioned way:



This, by the way, is a fantastic way of getting a 'C' profile and an absolute bum way for getting to my personal preference (esp for 6 string electrics) of a 'V' profile Luckily, this is a 'C'

Final lengthways sand to get rid of the sandpaper scratch marks got me to this:



Next thread, onto the frets and fretboard...

Andy

[Paul S]

You made that all sound very easy, Andy!

Fascinating stuff!

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431352185' post='2770318']
You name it, I've probably already caught it.
[/quote]

Probably best not to dwell on it, frankly...

[Andyjr1515]

For the frets, first job was to re-establish the chamfer:



This is a great but inexpensive tool - a diamond file (removable and reversable) in a hard-rubber block.

Then taking off the sharp corners and edges:




The frets themselves were impressively accurate for an unfinished neck. I didn't have to do any general leveling - just half a dozen high spots in various places on various frets, and a couple of re-seatings of the fret ends.

Next was to take off the finish off the fretboard - I will be staining this 'essence of original' (ie as close as I can reasonably get) and, unlike the neck itself, the fretboard had been coated or waxed and that would have stopped the new stain soaking in. I use a single edged razor for cleaning / light refurb or stanley knife blade for heavier scraping (in use, two handed when not holding camera as well!). By the way - DON'T use a blade for a fretless! Only radius block and appropriate sandpaper for that job




This then gave me a correctly slimmed neck, of the right profile, tarted up frets ready for staining:





I did a couple of experiments with different stains I've used in the past - the stains react quite differently with different pieces of wood even of the same species so it can't be assumed that if it worked once before it will give the same result again .

Found one that - when finished - I think will be the closest I can reasonably get to the original (not sure it will quite have the WONDERFUL honey glow of the original, but it will be closer than, say, purple!!!)

This is only indicative, because the clear finish makes a significant difference to the final look but here it is:








I have some Luminlays airmailing their way from Japan for the side dots and need to discuss with Paul his preferred finish but I'm really pleased so far how this is coming out

Thanks for looking, folks
Andy

Edited May 11, 2015 by Andyjr1515

[discreet]

Going by the thread title I was expecting a bit of a bodge, but this is top, professional work! Nicely done.

[Paul S]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1431353510' post='2770345']
but I'm really pleased so far how this is coming out
[/quote]

Not as pleased as I am, I'll wager. That stain looks lovely and warm - just the ticket.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431353625' post='2770349']
Going by the thread title I was expecting a bit of a bodge, but this is top, professional work! Nicely done.
[/quote]
Or as one of my colleagues once said '... you know, when you [i]really[/i] put your mind to it, you are capable of almost adding a touch of elegance to your bodge jobs...'

Thanks - very much appreciated....especially when I saw just how FANTASTIC some of our basschat members 'little projects' are at last weekend's Midlands Bash. Now if you are talking top, professional work, that was where it was at (there were loads of examples but Jabba the Gut's were simply sublime...)

Andy

[Andyjr1515]

The Luminlay arrived this afternoon.

It's very easy to install. After drilling the 3mm holes, it s a dab of superglue on the end of the luminlay rod and then a firm push to the bottom of the drilled hole:




Then a bit of masking tape to protect the neck and a razor saw:



A quick sand gives you this for daytime playing:



...and after a 2-3 second blast of the little UV torch per dot, you have this for when it's a bit dark for us old gits:



This one's blue, but you can get green also...

Just got the tuner holes, final sand, final stain and then satin varnish finish left to do

Andy

[Paul S]

Excitement level is upgraded from 'moderate' to 'very'.... Another top job in the making.

[PlungerModerno]

Nice work, and nice documentation of the process. I still have no idea what's up with that neck heel though! Should be plenty strong as long as the screw's don't line up with air! (seeing the reverse of the original neck heel - that won't be an issue!)

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1431969753' post='2776767']
Nice work, and nice documentation of the process. I still have no idea what's up with that neck heel though! Should be plenty strong as long as the screw's don't line up with air! (seeing the reverse of the original neck heel - that won't be an issue!)
[/quote]

I agree, PlungerModerno - can't see any logic to it.

Then again, on the original, can't see any logic to the extra wide counterbore below either :



The bushes are 12mm OD and 10mm ID, the spindles are 10mm right down to the mating surface, so why have the extra counterbore??? Who knows...

With the string positions being in different places and the head being a slightly different shape, I checked the string runs. The original positions put the strings a tiny bit closer together than I would have liked, so I moved the positions 5mm further up to take advantage of the rising and falling curves of the headstock sides to gain another couple of mm of separation:



Like always, then checked, double checked and triple checked before I started drilling.

For tuner holes, I now ALWAYS use a stepped drill - much easier to control, much easier to keep perpendicular and much less likely to 'burst' the headstock than conventional drills. Does anyone else use these?




Then job done



Just got to do the final sand, final stain then varnish and this can be shipped back to Paul

Andy

Edited May 20, 2015 by Andyjr1515

[Paul S]

Always default to the best, great stuff.

[alyctes]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1432134416' post='2778486']

The bushes are 12mm OD and 10mm ID, the spindles are 10mm right down to the mating surface, so why have the extra counterbore??? Who knows...

[/quote]

Neck dive?

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='alyctes' timestamp='1432504023' post='2782194']
Neck dive?
[/quote]

Interesting thought - it's possible - But I'd imagine it's just the standard size they drilled all the tuner holes to, to fit their biggest tuner - and all the smaller ones with the generous bushings covering the gap!