Replacing Berg CN212 with 2x BF Super Compacts... Thoughts?

[largo]

Surely it's not the fact they are louder but stay cleaner longer that's the big factor. Personally I don't care if a BF 2x12 is louder than a Berg 2x12. Just turn up a notch on the amp. Got to admit though, with the Gen3 range I'm very tempted. Smaller & lighter is never bad so long as the tone is still there.

I do wonder how long it will be before the other high-end cab manufacturers follow in Alex's footsteps and develop a high-excursion speaker though.

[Musashimonkey]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1431348828' post='2770224']
Surely it's not the fact they are louder but stay cleaner longer that's the big factor. Personally I don't care if a BF 2x12 is louder than a Berg 2x12. Just turn up a notch on the amp.
[/quote]
You're dead right, BF stay cleaner longer into higher volumes in my experience. And therefore are able to be played at higher volumes without distorting.

[Ziphoblat]

The sly BF knocking is getting tasteless. I suppose it depends on the intention of the end user, but to presume their number one priority on a new speaker cabinet purchase to be a Tolex finish and a fancy badge seems a tad off-base to me. I can empathise with the existence of this preference if one has spent too long stewing in an environment where people are bought with visuals rather than audio, but my (perhaps misplaced) faith in humanity leads me to believe that most musicians can see past this. I struggle to understand why it's so hard for certain people to get over their solipsism on this issue. Agree to disagree. Condescending, passive aggressive presentations of one's own opinion as if it were an immovable fact are childish at best.

[Conan]

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1431349706' post='2770244']
The sly BF knocking is getting tasteless. Condescending, passive aggressive presentations of one's own opinion as if it were an immovable fact are childish at best.
[/quote]

I've seen very little BF knocking on this thread (far less than normal, in fact!).

I made a somewhat harsh comment earlier in the thread but I have edited that following further thought. I can't see any others?

[Ziphoblat]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1431351379' post='2770287']
I've seen very little BF knocking on this thread (far less than normal, in fact!).

I made a somewhat harsh comment earlier in the thread but I have edited that following further thought. I can't see any others?
[/quote]

I was mainly commenting on the narrative that Barefaced are somehow "midrange" and could never hope to compete with certain other brands.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not suggesting that they be free of criticism. I'd just rather that criticism (of anything) be a touch more constructive and acknowledge it's own subjective nature where appropriate.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Ziphoblat

[largo]

I do have to admit that the "look" of my gear is a factor when making a purchase.

[Muzz]

Basses, yes - you'd have a long walk (even on here) to find anyone shallower than me on that basis, but the boxes that sit behind me, sometimes wedged in between the kit and the guitar amps? Not so much - sound and weight are much, much more important.

[Ghost_Bass]

Sound and weight for me too!

I'm very happy with the way my Super12T handles all the gigs i do. If i ever feel that i should change the looks of my bass rig it will be as simple as purchasing a piece of tolex, some glue and silver grill cloth, no need to move on to another manufacturer that may not give me the sound/weight i'm used too...

[JTUK]

I'd put most Berg cabs pretty much at the top of the tree...
As far as the OP goes... 2 super Compacts..?? not on sound
or build ( based on the BF cans I've heard which is about the same amount of
various Berg cabs..) I couldn't be that specific about which BF cabs and I wouldn't
know how much you could blame the bass player's sound either. I suspect that didn't help
though. General take is too much bass, not enough tone, but I must admit that is also a
common trait with bass players, full stop, to my ears and many cabs can screw that up.

But back to the OP, not sure what you'd gain.. the CN212 is not a heavy cab and that would be negated
by having to make two trips with 2 cabs...??

[StraightSix]

Yeah but the two Barefaced cabs will be louder and they're British made...support British businesses I say

[Musashimonkey]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1431374820' post='2770725']

But back to the OP, not sure what you'd gain..
[/quote]

That's some fair sense right there. Buying from scratch, or coming from HT/EX as I did, I know I'd have the BF (IMO), but if you've already got a nice CN212 in the bag... Tricky decision. But what a great position to be in eh?! You'll win either way I'm sure!

[Musashimonkey]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1431374820' post='2770725']
based on the BF cans I've heard... General take is too much bass, not enough tone, but I must admit that is also a
common trait with bass players, full stop, to my ears and many cabs can screw that up.

[/quote]

I agree. I love bass, but too much ruins the tone. I think this is a common eq issue with BF cabs, we're all so used to turning up the Bass EQ to make up for cabs with poor low end response, that when you get a BF with great lows you have to alter your settings. This tends to be a difficult perception shift for some, like 'auto condimenters' who add salt with out even tasting the food first! Some guys want their heads to boost some bass, no matter how much is already signing from the cab!

To get an even response from mine I have to actually roll back the bass as there's so much on tap. This is through a GK head, which admittedly boost lows and highs when EQ is set 'flat' at 12 o'clock.

[M@23]

Funny that the 'Barefaced are louder' arguement comes around on every speaker cab recomendation thread on BC. Firstly, I find it interesting that they apparently eek more volume out of their units than Bergantino/Vanderkley/Aguilar/Anyothertopbrand; and secondly, that people care so much. I can't think of a gig I'd do where a CN212 wouldn't be loud enough.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, just an observation.

[fretmeister]

That's my volume thought too.

If the vol control is getting anywhere near halfway on a 500+ watt head then it should all be through the PA and mixed properly at FOH.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1431381141' post='2770803']
Funny that the 'Barefaced are louder' arguement comes around on every speaker cab recomendation thread on BC. Firstly, I find it interesting that they apparently eek more volume out of their units than Bergantino/Vanderkley/Aguilar/Anyothertopbrand; and secondly, that people care so much. I can't think of a gig I'd do where a CN212 wouldn't be loud enough.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, just an observation.
[/quote]

I guess if you're using either one or two 1x12" cabs depending on the gig, having higher displacement drivers might mean you find yourself bringing the second one along less often. I can see how a lot of people might appreciate that.

[karlfer]

Why would you want 2 BF 8 OHM CABS?


If you are using an Orange Bass Terror, do they not still have a 4 ohm/8ohm switch on the back?
Switch to 8 ohm, get your 500 watts. Any bigger gigs will be through PA surely?

And with the greatest respect to BF fans, I ran a Gen 11 S12V for 18 months, I know roughly how to eq, but on VERY RARE occasions in rare horrible venues, you could not eq out boom.
So, they are exceptionally good but are not the solution to all bass ill's.


AND DON'T get me started on The Toon, disgrace to the shirt most of them.

Edited May 12, 2015 by karlfer

[EBS_freak]

And here's me thinking that vanderklay is everybody's new beau.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1431426877' post='2771124']
And here's me thinking that vanderklay is everybody's new beau.
[/quote]

I almost bought one of theirs!

I tested multiple combinations. Genz Shuttle 9.2 and Streamliner 900, into Berg HD cabs and Vander Neos.

I liked the Shuttle with the Bergs and the Streamliner into the Vanders.

I bought the Shuttle & Bergs.

Then I got annoyed with the weight of the HD bergs and swapped them for CN series when they came out. They worked very well with both amps, so I got a Streamliner as well.

Now the Genz heads are in a cupboard and I'm using a Demeter head.

GAS is a vile and all consuming condition!

[JTUK]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1431427313' post='2771128']
I almost bought one of theirs!

I tested multiple combinations. Genz Shuttle 9.2 and Streamliner 900, into Berg HD cabs and Vander Neos.

I liked the Shuttle with the Bergs and the Streamliner into the Vanders.

I bought the Shuttle & Bergs.

Then I got annoyed with the weight of the HD bergs and swapped them for CN series when they came out. They worked very well with both amps, so I got a Streamliner as well.

Now the Genz heads are in a cupboard and I'm using a Demeter head.

GAS is a vile and all consuming condition!
[/quote]

CN212 and Demeter... ??? way to go..!! :

[fretmeister]

almost - a pair of CN112

Never been happier with my sound.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Musashimonkey' timestamp='1431379792' post='2770792']
I agree. I love bass, but too much ruins the tone. I think this is a common eq issue with BF cabs, we're all so used to turning up the Bass EQ to make up for cabs with poor low end response, that when you get a BF with great lows you have to alter your settings. This tends to be a difficult perception shift for some, like 'auto condimenters' who add salt with out even tasting the food first! Some guys want their heads to boost some bass, no matter how much is already signing from the cab!

To get an even response from mine I have to actually roll back the bass as there's so much on tap. This is through a GK head, which admittedly boost lows and highs when EQ is set 'flat' at 12 o'clock.
[/quote]

I wouldn't approach like that myself... I'd work it to the sound I wanted to hear with regards how I play ..
so each cab would would get its own EQ set-up.. I'd totally expect to change and start from a blank canvas.
I wouldn't understand why someone would use the same settings and expect it to work..
but then I also know more than a few people who photo their rig settings so if they lose them,
they can restore from a picture... WTF..!!!!

[JTUK]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1431461812' post='2771679']
almost - a pair of CN112

Never been happier with my sound.
[/quote]

Cool, I'm going to run a pr of S112's with a TH500, but I think I'll want more headroom so the Demeter 800w amp is
on my radar.

[fretmeister]

It's a brilliant amp. Very clear and articulate, but still with a lovely plummy bottom.

[Merton]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1431463543' post='2771705']
It's a brilliant amp. Very clear and articulate, but still with a lovely plummy bottom.
[/quote]


Don't say that. I have neither the talent, gigs or money to warrant one but I WANT one.

[molan]

I don't really understand the 'loud' or 'louder than' requirements.

It always sounds a bit Spinal Tap to me but maybe I'm just odd!

With a 2x10 8ohm cab and an 800w head (therefore running at about 500w) I never need to turn the master up beyond 11:00 and that's against two relatively loud guitarists - one of whom usually has his Vox firing right at me.

Any more than that and the bass becomes overpowering and kills the broader sound of the band as a whole.

There's always a little bass in the PA and it's properly mixed so that the band as a whole sounds like a cohesive unit.