Thanks Parcelforce - Hurray my new bass has arrrived and been tossed over the gate

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1431541085' post='2772442']
... so stop wriggling and distorting your story - the bloke lost his job.
[/quote]

Entirely his own fault.

[Jazzneck]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1431542689' post='2772468']
Entirely his own fault.
[/quote]

You know all of the facts?

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1431542884' post='2772472']


You know all of the facts?
[/quote]

No, I'm suggesting that if Parcelforce managers, from the MD down, have decided to dismiss this person, then they have made an informed decision based on the evidence, and in line with their policies and HR procedures. They obviously feel that his behaviour was unacceptable, in terms of what they expect from their staff, and have made their decision accordingly.

It's not up to you, me, or the OP to try and argue otherwise.

Edited May 13, 2015 by cameltoe

[Jazzneck]

Thanks to Mr. Apple I'm now submitting my original post, edited for personal insults, for completeness of the thread.

[b]Please read it as if posted at 5:32PM today.[/b]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Great stuff, so a guy is now out of a job.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Has anyone of you considered the fact that he might have a young family and he's their only breadwinner?[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why the heck didn't you just [b]talk[/b] to someone (you can telephone and get connected directly to the depot manager - details on Parcelforce website), preferably the driver or his immediate supervisor as I have done in a similar situation.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]He would have probably got a rollicking and something to think about in the future.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I give up - w[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]hy does everybody have to escalate every tiny problem in this world to the stratosphere and demand ACTION?[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Try and be reasonable for once.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]You got an undamaged bass delivered to your door probably by a guy who was trying to be helpful and he got sacked for his pains.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And I'm not being ironic. [/font][/color]

Edited May 13, 2015 by Jazzneck

[Beedster]

[quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1431545311' post='2772523']
Thanks to Mr. Apple I'm now submitting my original post, edited for personal insults, for completeness of the thread.

[b]Please read it as if posted at 5:32PM today.[/b]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Great stuff, so a guy is now out of a job.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Has anyone of you considered the fact that he might have a young family and he's their only breadwinner?[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why the heck didn't you just [b]talk[/b] to someone (you can telephone and get connected directly to the depot manager - details on Parcelforce website), preferably the driver or his immediate supervisor as I have done in a similar situation.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]He would have probably got a rollicking and something to think about in the future.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I give up - w[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]hy does everybody have to escalate every tiny problem in this world to the stratosphere and demand ACTION?[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Try and be reasonable for once.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]You got an undamaged bass delivered to your door probably by a guy who was trying to be helpful and he got sacked for his pains.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]And I'm not being ironic. [/font][/color]
[/quote]

It's fair point, and if he has fired this guy I'd personally like to ask the MD why this particular case has resulted in such action when it is quite clear that such habits are systemic and not acted upon, in fact tacitly encouraged, elsewhere in his company. I'm not sure where the real stress lies here. Had it been damaged I could understand it, but even the it would have been covered by both PF and ultimately Thomann. So no harm actually done and no expense to anyone and the guy loses his job because it lands at the MDs office?

[mrhectic]

He might not of got fired. Its the easy option to tell that to someone so they stop complaining

[Old Man Riva]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1431543564' post='2772485']
No, I'm suggesting that if Parcelforce managers, from the MD down, have decided to dismiss this person, then they have made an informed decision based on the evidence, and in line with their policies and HR procedures. They obviously feel that his behaviour was unacceptable, in terms of what they expect from their staff, and have made their decision accordingly.

It's not up to you, me, or the OP to try and argue otherwise.
[/quote]
It's a pity Parcelforce didn't adhere to their policies and procedures and followed the company line of not divulging they'd sacked someone. Shabby behaviour.

Call me a lily-livered old liberal (small L) but I think it's possible to feel sympathy for both the OP and the Parcelforce employee.

I'd be mightily hacked off if something was delivered to me in the way that the bass was to the OP (though not sure I'd offer a blow by blow account online) and I can completely understand the anger/frustration.

I can also sympathise with the predicament the Parcelforce employee has been placed in. The company I work for has a requirement to use courier companies. In my experience they're all much of a muchness - i.e. not very reliable. If you speak to any of the drivers and gain an understanding of what they're being asked to do on a day to day basis (regardless of the company) it's all fairly depressing stuff - load 'em up, get 'em out and get 'em all delivered in a wholly unrealistic/unachievable time frame. No answer - go back later, regardless of the time, just don't bring them back. And let's be honest, if the driver has written on the card that the delivery has been left behind the gate and then signed the OP's name on the card then he's probably guilty of trying to cover his backside from both employer and customer point of view than anything malicious?

My anger would be more directed at a company whose culture and leadership allowed the above to happen.

Anyway, glad the bass is okay but a shame that someone has lost their job over it..

[discreet]

It smells like bull to me also.

Edited May 14, 2015 by discreet

[GreeneKing]

That's a bit of a coincidence. I had an identically sized Thomas box tossed over my similarly sized garden fence this week. Not in kendal by any chance are you?

Mine was thankfully just a hardcase, unharmed. The delivery driver (who was a contractor to Parcelforce) seemed to realise he'd been a plonker and he came back in the evening to check all was okay. He wasn't to know what was in it though.

[Sibob]

Is it worth considering the wording from Parcelforce? They have terminated his contract.
It may be possible, that if they out-source some deliveries, the guy simply lost his Parcelforce contact and simply will carry on with his other contracts.

In any case, the facts seem to be that someone didn't do their job correctly, within the satisfactory guidlines of both his employer and the customer. As a result of this, he has been let go (in whatever respect) via due-process, seems fair. As pointed out, perhaps someone else in need of a job will continue the job correctly.
If he was sacked unfairly, he'll bring it to a tribunal, which he'll get a settlement for and the PR will be worse for Parcelforce than one annoyed customer.......

Cool?
Si

[mentalextra]

Interesting, I usually ask from any deliveries made to my home to be dropped over the side gate if I'm out. I have built a little 'doo dah' that my parcels drop onto to cushion the blow I would rather deal with a wet cardboard box than what the neighbours have historically done to my parcels.

Edited May 13, 2015 by mentalextra

[Old Man Riva]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431546722' post='2772544']
It smells like bull to me also.
[/quote]
Doubt that a company like Parcelforce would dare to pull a stunt like that, not in these days of social media - Twitter, Facebook, My Gripe, Moan-a-gram would have more "OMGs" than a Glee convention..

Edited May 13, 2015 by Old Man Riva

[jonnythenotes]

For whatever reason he did this, be it time constraints put on him by his depot , trying to save himself a few minutes here and there, or just plain ignorance of his responsibility to the customer, he now is out of work. What is absolutely paramount to the Royal Mail / Parcel Force is credibility in the eyes of the general public. As a company, their number one selling point is trust.... Of all the millions of pounds they handle every day, none of it is theirs...it's ours...we just trust them with it for a given time to get it from A to B without any issues whatsoever. If anything threatens this in anyway, the penalty is almost always dismissal.... Whether this be wilful delay of mail, theft, forging a signature, not locking your van up while you are away from it, or even riding your Royal Mail bike without a helmet on... these can, and have ended in the sack for the offender. Every month there is a Royal Mail magazine goes out to all employees, and one section in particular is always interesting reading...who got sacked, and for what reason that month. It's a brutal, but effective way of saying ' we don't take prisoners or show leniency. Also in this article is what custodial sentences were handed out for the more serious incidents, such as proven habitual theft. So, with what may seem like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, this individuals predicament is now an example of what to expect if you stray from the straight and narrow to many other delivery drivers. It's such a shame that something that was inexcusable, yet without malice by the driver has cost him his livelihood, but if it was me who had found my bass thrown over my gate, I would, without doubt, have gone super nova as well. Put the clock back a few days, and it might have ended differently, but it's done now, with no one feeling to happy about the whole thing...

[cameltoe]

[quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1431548261' post='2772567']
For whatever reason he did this, be it time constraints put on him by his depot , trying to save himself a few minutes here and there, or just plain ignorance of his responsibility to the customer, he now is out of work. What is absolutely paramount to the Royal Mail / Parcel Force is credibility in the eyes of the general public. As a company, their number one selling point is trust.... Of all the millions of pounds they handle every day, none of it is theirs...it's ours...we just trust them with it for a given time to get it from A to B without any issues whatsoever. If anything threatens this in anyway, the penalty is almost always dismissal.... Whether this be wilful delay of mail, theft, forging a signature, not locking your van up while you are away from it, or even riding your Royal Mail bike without a helmet on... these can, and have ended in the sack for the offender. Every month there is a Royal Mail magazine goes out to all employees, and one section in particular is always interesting reading...who got sacked, and for what reason that month. It's a brutal, but effective way of saying ' we don't take prisoners or show leniency. Also in this article is what custodial sentences were handed out for the more serious incidents, such as proven habitual theft. So, with what may seem like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, this individuals predicament is now an example of what to expect if you stray from the straight and narrow to many other delivery drivers. It's such a shame that something that was inexcusable, yet without malice by the driver has cost him his livelihood, but if it was me who had found my bass thrown over my gate, I would, without doubt, have gone super nova as well. Put the clock back a few days, and it might have ended differently, but it's done now, with no one feeling to happy about the whole thing...
[/quote]

There was a guy in my office who was sacked for having an accident on delivery. He admitted to having stepped over a chain at the front of the property as a shortcut, rather than use the correct pathways and gate. Gross misconduct and a health and safety breach.

As you say, they take no prisoners, especially when it comes to the safe handling of mail.

[blisters on my fingers]

"Interesting, I usually ask from any deliveries made to my home to be dropped over the side gate if I'm out. I have built a little 'doo dah' that my parcels drop onto to cushion the blow"

So who exactly signs for these deliveries ?

The driver ?

Getting serious deja vu here.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='blisters on my fingers' timestamp='1431552466' post='2772628']
"Interesting, I usually ask from any deliveries made to my home to be dropped over the side gate if I'm out. I have built a little 'doo dah' that my parcels drop onto to cushion the blow"

So who exactly signs for these deliveries ?

The driver ?

Getting serious deja vu here.
[/quote]

Doesn't need to be signed for. Sorry for the de ja vu

[LayDownThaFunk]

Thumbs up for the OP - "Hey kids, wanna see a dead body?!".

[Cosmo Valdemar]

Regardless of the outcome, the OP received shocking service and was entirely within his rights to complain - Which he did using the proper channels as set out by the offending company. To now turn this around and accuse the OP of over-reacting and getting a man fired is appalling guilt-mongering. Stuckinthepod has done nothing wrong whatsoever.

[xgsjx]

I agree. Forged signature is fraud. What if someone had stolen the bass after the deliverer had left it?
He was paid to do a job. If he's not willing to do that job, why does he deserve to keep that position?

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1431585439' post='2772737']
I agree. Forged signature is fraud. What if someone had stolen the bass after the deliverer had left it?
He was paid to do a job. If he's not willing to do that job, why does he deserve to keep that position?
[/quote]

I think this is a harsh judgement for someone doing a fairly menial job. Surely fraud is where someone has gained financially. The person who has gained is the OP who has got his goods, albeit in an unconventional manner. No one on this forum likes the idea of basses of all things being left unattended and at the mercy of the elements, but I think things need to be put into perspective, the bass was not damaged, not stolen and delivered on-time. All the bad things we talk about did not happen.

Maybe the driver is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't and It's a pity this was not an opportunity for education and training.

[cloudburst]

I've had my fair share of Parcelforce over-doing it on the 'force' bit.

However, in this case the package which was declared as being "tossed over the gate" had no signs of impact damage and the OP started the thread before even checking this.

I reckon the OP has a case of Premature Exaggeration :-)

CB

[Beedster]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1431586296' post='2772747']
I think this is a harsh judgement for someone doing a fairly menial job. Surely fraud is where someone has gained financially. The person who has gained is the OP who has got his goods, albeit in an unconventional manner. No one on this forum likes the idea of basses of all things being left unattended and at the mercy of the elements, but I think things need to be put into perspective, the bass was not damaged, not stolen and delivered on-time. All the bad things we talk about did not happen.

Maybe the driver is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't and It's a pity this was not an opportunity for education and training.
[/quote]

+1, I know from speaking to my PF driver quite a lot that they get treated like crap by middle management and that senior management don't have a clue about anything but bottom lines. Classic senior management behaviour is to ignore any unethical or unprofessional behaviour by staff whilst it maintains profits until it lands on her/his desk with a paper trail that can't be avoided, at which point s/he overeacts to make a point, as may be the case here. I'll say it again, my PF driver is TOLD to leave as many items as possible and drivers doing this and signing for them is according to him widespread and accepted practice. He's certainly done it with my stuff loads of times.

[Beedster]

And BTW I expect that somewhere in PFs T&Cs a driver signing for a package is NOT considered fraud.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1431586296' post='2772747']
I think this is a harsh judgement for someone doing a fairly menial job. Surely fraud is where someone has gained financially. The person who has gained is the OP who has got his goods, albeit in an unconventional manner. No one on this forum likes the idea of basses of all things being left unattended and at the mercy of the elements, but I think things need to be put into perspective, the bass was not damaged, not stolen and delivered on-time. All the bad things we talk about did not happen.

Maybe the driver is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't and It's a pity this was not an opportunity for education and training.
[/quote]
It might sound like a bit of a harsh judgement, but then his employer will have told him the rules. If they hadn't, then he possibly has a legal case.
Fraud isn't always about financial gain. In this case it may have been about gaining personal time, but he should have taken this up with his employer.
Maybe the deliverer had some issue such as struggling with the amount of drops he had, but then he should take these thing up with the company.
I was a delivery driver doing multi drop many moons ago. If there was too many for me to get through, then I'd raise it with my manager. I know how hard a job it can be, but if you can't handle that kind of job, do something else.
I do think terminating his contract is a bit hard.

I had an issue with a delivery driver tearing open an 8kg box of chocolate that I ordered for making a wedding cake & helping himself to a few hands full of callets. I don't know or care what happened to the chap. But I did complain on the company's Facebook page with photographs. Had the supplier not been so good, then there would have been no wedding cake on time.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1431587134' post='2772755']
I know from speaking to my PF driver quite a lot that they get treated like crap by middle management and that senior management don't have a clue about anything but bottom lines.
[/quote]

Much like any other industry then...