discreet Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1431411905' post='2770911'] ...and another thing; who'd be the obvious candidate for buying and humping the PA? Never the singer apparently. (transport's usually optional too). [/quote] Ours is a technophobe and claims he isn't able to operate a mixing desk. So muggins here sets it all up at rehearsal for him to swan in late, say 'one, two' into the mic, make a face and say,'I suppose it'll have to do.' His unfortunate and premature death will make us an instrumental band, I fear - at least for a little while. Oh well, it can't be helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
police squad Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Discreet, you are funny mate. Give em a good lashing, excellent. I sing and I practice. I sing along in the car and work out my phrasing but I can't be bothered to learn words, it's another stress that I just don't need. I have them printed out, very big and on the floor or against the monitor. Not every song, some I just remember and some I can't. Singing with good monitors really helps but it's learning to control your voice that is the key. My 8 years of singing Police songs has helped here. I try to balance it all. I try and sing well, know my limits and front the band (and play guitar or bass depending what I'm doing) and I've got a quality PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='police squad' timestamp='1431413217' post='2770922'] I can't be bothered to learn words, it's another stress that I just don't need. I have them printed out, very big and on the floor or against the monitor. [/quote] You should be lashed until you drop! Well... I suppose I'll let you off if you're singing and playing at the same time. I really wouldn't fancy it much. And Sting can never remember the bloody words anyway, so you're probably about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 That's really nailing the tribute band thing accurately! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1431375970' post='2770743'] I've only been in a band with one singer that I would describe as a musician. singers are the worst offenders but there are plenty of guitarists and drummers who do the same [/quote] Also bassists and keyboardists, violinists, trumpeters, saxophonists, hurdy-gurdyists etc. etc. loads of bassists I've played with actually, really loads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431350833' post='2770266'] Why? Because they are deluded, narcissistic chancers who believe they have God-given talent and you should think yourself lucky to be in the same room as them. I think they are worthless, feckless, lazy bastards who should be lashed until they drop. These are just opinions, of course. [/quote] [b]This[/b] [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431375939' post='2770742'] Some singers seem to have the attitude that if they've turned up at all you should be grateful. And while I'm on, what's with all this carrying around scraps of paper and tatty notebooks with lyrics written down? Is it to make them look important? I've taken the trouble to learn my bass lines well enough that I don't have to consult any literature while I'm playing, so why do vocalists think that it's OK to peer myopically through their bifocals at their spidery handwriting when singing? This is bad enough at rehearsal (they should have learned their crap at home, rehearsal isn't for learning stuff), but when they do it at gigs (whether it's my band or not) it makes me want to punch them! AND ANOTHER THING, they can't (or won't) count bars, either! They routinely come in too late or too fricking early, or not at all! THEY'RE NOT PROPER BLOODY MUSICIANS! Stupid fecking worthless unprofessional bastards!! They must be lashed!! There, I've said it. [/quote] [b]And this[/b] except for BassChat members of course. (Our singer doesn't even have his own microphone, and stands around chatting and smoking while all the gear gets set up! Grrrr.) Edited May 12, 2015 by Count Bassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 And another thing! Why do singers seem to think that it is their band???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It can be hard to find a singer that knows the voice is an instrument just like any other. Practice & rehearsal make for improvement. I had an excellent singer who said to me when I told him that I can't sing "it's just like any instrument. If you practice it & get tuition, you can learn to get a tune out of it". My Mrs, who is a pretty good singer, was trying to tell me that it's completely different & that anyone can learn a physical instrument, but not all can learn to sing. I disagreed with her & pointed out that there's many musicians put in the hours & effort of the likes of Billy Sheehan, Steve Vai, Herbie Hancock etc & many fall way short. Just like there's many vocalists that have put in the time & fall short of the likes of Kurt Elling. I believe that if a singer is serious about joining a band, they should have some basic knowledge of music, & I don't mean like "Halo is a Beyonce song". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I must admit the singer was the main reason I quit my last band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431350833' post='2770266'] A disappointing number of singers I've had the misfortune to meet have not bothered to do this. Why? Because they are deluded, narcissistic chancers who believe they have God-given talent and you should think yourself lucky to be in the same room as them. I think they are worthless, feckless, lazy bastards who should be lashed until they drop. These are just opinions, of course. [/quote] [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431371865' post='2770670'] That's the other thing - singers that won't learn how to sing inevitably can't be bothered to learn lyrics, either - I hate it when singers don't know the words and then either bluff it through by mumbling, or make up words as they go along. The worst one I've seen is a singer blatantly reading lyrics from a phone at a gig, which looks so bloody bad you can hardly believe it! Lazy, lazy, feckless bastards!! [/quote] [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431375939' post='2770742'] Some singers seem to have the attitude that if they've turned up at all you should be grateful. And while I'm on, what's with all this carrying around scraps of paper and tatty notebooks with lyrics written down? Is it to make them look important? I've taken the trouble to learn my bass lines well enough that I don't have to consult any literature while I'm playing, so why do vocalists think that it's OK to peer myopically through their bifocals at their spidery handwriting when singing? This is bad enough at rehearsal (they should have learned their crap at home, rehearsal isn't for learning stuff), but when they do it at gigs (whether it's my band or not) it makes me want to punch them! AND ANOTHER THING, they can't (or won't) count bars, either! They routinely come in too late or too fricking early, or not at all! THEY'RE NOT PROPER BLOODY MUSICIANS! Stupid fecking worthless unprofessional bastards!! They must be lashed!! There, I've said it. [/quote] You were bitten by a singer when you were a child, weren't you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='ColinB' timestamp='1431436966' post='2771322'] You were bitten by a singer when you were a child, weren't you! [/quote] Not at all - I just like seeing public lashings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Firefly Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Singer by default.... couldnt get one, no one else would try....started by learning how to control shouting !!! Now Im a gravelly, melodic shouting Rod Stewart / Peter Criss / Dickie Barrett type 'singer'. Get allsorts of advice and help from someone I know who's a very powerful singer about breathing and diaphragm use. I already had a good sense of time and pitch from my bass side of things... learning to sing and play was a pain in the butt but got around it in the end. Stopping smoking gave me oodles of stamina I didnt know I had too !!! But then agin, I dont really see myself as a singer, more a front person when Im with my band...Shane Macgowan was no singer, Kurt Cobain was no Chris Cornell either so I think I can get away with a lack of vocal talent somehow !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1431432002' post='2771218'] And another thing! Why do singers seem to think that it is their band???? [/quote] I suppose it is because generally it is the singer that the audience pays most attention to. This is why a lot of singers have big egos. The rest of us are supposed to be there to support him/her. No such thing as team work. This is frustrating enough if they can actually sing, but is unforgivable if they can not. Again I come back to a point I made earlier, i.e. bands themselves have to take some responsibility for putting up with both the inflated ego and the inferior singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHW Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Currently in 2 bands- Band One I have thought about leaving many times, only reason I'm still there is that it is in profit (gig money in vs rehearsals, fuel, strings, kit out) The singer relies (totally) on a tablet at gigs and from the sounds of one rehearsal to the next does not practice. If he even listens to original recordings I'd be surprised as he misses what I would call pretty necessary inflections in vocal phrasing on many songs. Even worse is that he misses vocal cues time and time again coming in in the middle of lines. The frustrating thing is that the rest of the band are pretty good, but content to have him up front. They have all been mates for over 30 years, and I am very much the newcomer- I really cannot be motivated with the idea of a coup, so am left to see it as a minor 2nd income. Band Two we have a very technical female vocalist who learns everything off by heart, and is constantly trying to improve her own musicianship- she is not perfect by any means, but then again, neither are the remainder of the band. we work hard on arrangements and harmonies and it is coming together well. She has been having lessons for the last 6 years and works very hard at her craft. Number 2 is a lot more fun to work with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='CHW' timestamp='1431443829' post='2771433'] The singer relies (totally) on a tablet at gigs.. [/quote]Bloody technology! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeEvans Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Maybe a slight edit would make the question easier to answer: [quote] [b] Why are singers (generally) averse to lessons/instruction from the bass player?[/b] [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1431431519' post='2771208'] Also bassists and keyboardists, violinists, trumpeters, saxophonists, hurdy-gurdyists etc. etc. loads of bassists I've played with actually, really loads [/quote] Hence I don't do bands at the moment ☺ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1431432002' post='2771218'] And another thing! Why do singers seem to think that it is their band???? [/quote] Because if they are any good, they will be the main selling point of the band..and then they also get to choose the material as they have to sing it... so it easier to let them think it. After a few months you can slap them down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='CHW' timestamp='1431443829' post='2771433'] The singer relies (totally) on a tablet at gigs... [/quote] I used to rely on a handful back in the day, but I'm mostly over that now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1431459410' post='2771636'] Because if they are any good, they will be the main selling point of the band..and then they also get to choose the material as they have to sing it... so it easier to let them think it. After a few months you can slap them down... [/quote] If that's the sort of band you'd want to be in. I sacked a singer because he only wanted to sing pop rock covers & not do any original material, despite the advert saying that it was an originals Acid Jazz/funk band. When did Green day become Acid Jazz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 In my experience of singers in a function band, both band members and deps, I can't recall working with one who could read music. (In fact one or two struggled with reading...). Why is this I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyd Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 There seems to be a general "I don't need that theory stuff, I'm a natural!" attitude that's common amongst all musicians, but it seems more prevalent with singers and drummers for some reason. My theory is that with both instruments, a lot of people can initially get started without needing to formally learn notes or whatever, therefore they think that this is the way it's always going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 [quote name='casapete' timestamp='1431501467' post='2771876'] In my experience of singers in a function band, both band members and deps, I can't recall working with one who could read music. (In fact one or two struggled with reading...). Why is this I wonder? [/quote] Formal training which a lot don't have. My eyes..and ears..were opened when you get a singer who wants a harmony sang on the second or 9th of the chord, for example and can put that in place whilst the gtrs and keys are sorting out a chord themselves... so in an 8 bar or so run thru, its sorted vocally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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