muting

[Funky Dunky]

Just the bog standard blocking of unwanted noises when playing. How do you do it? I sound great unplugged but once you hear me through an amp there are all these ugly noises that shouldn't be there. Does this come naturally for most players, or is it typically something every bassist has to work at? I ask because I have never seen a lesson on it. I don't understand. It seems like I am constantly getting unwanted handling noise and catching open strings and sounding weird harmonics. Why can I not kill these noises? Am I especially clumsy? I can play some pretty challenging stuff for a novice, but I remain a novice due to this one flaw in my playing. For the love of God, somebody help me with this!

Edited May 11, 2015 by Funky Dunky

[gjones]

Firstly, you're probably playing with too much treble in your sound. Secondly, try not to hit the strings too hard (turn your amp up and play softer instead). Thirdly, concentrate on damping with both hands. If you're not playing a string, you should have a finger damping it, and that can be from your left or your right hand. A rule of thumb would be, if you're playing the E and A strings, your left hand should be damping the D and G strings and if you're playing the D and G strings, your right hand should be damping the E and A strings.

Edited May 12, 2015 by gjones

[gary mac]

This is why it is a good idea to regularly practice amped up, rather than just acoustically.

Any sloppiness can be a scarey thing when plugged in and playing at gig volume

[Coilte]

The "Floating Thumb" technique is great in two ways.
1). It mutes unwanted string sounds
2). As the wrist is straight using this technique, the risk of physical problems later on are reduced.

Here it is demonstrated :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU

[Funky Dunky]

Thanks guys, the Todd Johnson video was very helpful and I also found a Scott Devine video on the same subject. Interestingly, if you watch how Scott plays normally, that's how I started out and I didn't have this problem. It was only after another bassist saw me play and was critical of my right hand that I changed it. He told me I was giving myself extra work and that I should instead anchor my thumb on the top of the pickup and simply reach a little farther with my index and middle fingers to pluck the D and G strings. I changed my plucking style, and hello muting problems.

I will make it my top priority to fix this and will spend some time incorporating the floating thumb technique to see how I get on.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1431420448' post='2770997']
He told me I was giving myself extra work and that I should instead anchor my thumb on the top of the pickup and simply reach a little farther with my index and middle fingers to pluck the D and G strings.[/quote]

IMO resting the thumb on the pick up causes the hand to do more work. As explained in the Todd video the hand has to constantly change position, depending on which string is being played. With the FT, the hand remains more or less in the same position. Also, as I mentioned earlier, playing with a bent wrist is a definite recipe for the likes of tendinitis.

It may take a little time to get comfortable with the FT. By this I am talking about a possible two to three months.

Best of luck with it.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Coilte

[Funky Dunky]

I gave it a bash when practicing last night, and yes, it really does do the trick for muting the open strings. It will take me some time to get it correct, especially in terms of getting my plucking fingers up to speed from the slightly different position, and when transitioning from the low E, where my thumb still automatically comes back to rest on top of the pickup (this has very much become second nature.

I would agree with your assessment of 2-3 months to get it going smoothly, I can see it taking that kind of time to adjust and reconfigure my plucking hand. It's the blink of an eye in the grand scheme of the 'journey' and even if it takes longer, it's worth it to play correctly.

Thanks for sharing this info. :-)

Edited May 13, 2015 by Funky Dunky

[Coilte]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1431518824' post='2772121']
I gave it a bash when practicing last night, and yes, it really does do the trick for muting the open strings. It will take me some time to get it correct, especially in terms of getting my plucking fingers up to speed from the slightly different position, and when transitioning from the low E, where my thumb still automatically comes back to rest on top of the pickup (this has very much become second nature.

I would agree with your assessment of 2-3 months to get it going smoothly, I can see it taking that kind of time to adjust and reconfigure my plucking hand. It's the blink of an eye in the grand scheme of the 'journey' and even if it takes longer, it's worth it to play correctly.

Thanks for sharing this info. :-)
[/quote]

Glad you find the FT helpful. Well worth the time and effort to persevere with it.

[Sibob]

Yup floating thumb ftw!!
I also employ my fretting hand for muting too, remember you're generally only playing one note at a time....you've three spare fingers to lay across strings there

Si

[JimBobTTD]

I am having the exact same problem and popped in here to find advice. Thanks, everyone!

I never really noticed it when playing brutal metal...I pretty much mainly played on the B, E and A strings. My left hand took care of all my muting needs that were not covered by my right hand fingers hitting the string below it (i.e., plucking E would lead to fingers landing on the B string and muting it). Now, in a blues band, with walking lines all over the place, I find that I need to work on my muting far more. It is especially horrific to hear the B string ringing with pride whilst I am somewhere else!

[Funky Dunky]

I really need lessons.

It seems to take incredible conscious effort to mute the strings I'm not playing. It has slowed my playing down - but that's learning, isn't it? Slowly at first and then once it becomes second nature I can get back up to speed. But Jeez, I find it really tough.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Funky Dunky

[Coilte]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1431518824' post='2772121']
I gave it a bash when practicing last night[/quote]

The above quote is only five days old. You did say earlier that you realised it could take two to three months to become comfortable with the FT.

Dont be too hung up on speed. It is more important to take things slowly and get them right.

Stick with it.

[TKenrick]

I just wanted to offer an alternative opinion on right hand technique - whilst floating thumb is a great approach (particularly for 6 string bass and ERBs) it's not for everyone.

I went to a Todd Johnson clinic years ago when I was at music college and was really impressed by a lot of things he had to say regarding both technique and the process of practising so I dutifully went home and started trying to adopt the floating thumb technique. After a few weeks of trying to make the switch it just wasn't happening so I went back to the way I'd been playing for a decade or so.

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1431420448' post='2770997']
It was only after another bassist saw me play and was critical of my right hand that I changed it. He told me I was giving myself extra work and that I should instead anchor my thumb on the top of the pickup and simply reach a little farther with my index and middle fingers to pluck the D and G strings. I changed my plucking style, and hello muting problems.
[/quote]

Even though I'm an advocate of thumb anchoring, this is garbage. If you're using your thumb as an anchor then it still has to move with the rest of your hand as you change strings in order to mute unplayed strings and to maintain a constant distance between the thumb and the plucking fingers.

Muting can't just be allocated to the right hand, the responsibility has to be divided between both:[list]
[*]Left hand mutes unplayed strings above the notes that you're playing
[*]Right hand mutes the string(s) below
[/list]

Here's how I use the 'moveable anchor' on a 4-string:

- E string: Thumb rests on pickup

- A string: Thumb rests on pickup, fingers play rest strokes and land on the E string to mute it.

- D string: Thumb rests on E string, fingers play 'through' the D string and mute the A string.

- G string: Thumb rests on A string (back of the thumb also mutes E string), fingers play through the G string and mute the D string.


I find that this allows me to get rid of unwanted string noise and provides my right hand with a secure, relaxed position to play from. It also allows me to play with enough right hand pressure to achieve a strong tone from the bass - the only thing that I really disagree with Gary Willis on is his preference for cranking the amp and playing with an ultra-light touch. To my ears at least, the bass needs to be played with a certain amount of conviction in order to achieve a solid tone.

This is not to say that I advocate digging in all the time and playing like you're trying to rip the strings off the bass, I just feel that there's a comfortable middle ground between 'string tickling' and playing with maximum intensity all the time.

So, I'm not anti-floating thumb, I just wanted to offer insight for those who might have got the impression that it's the only way to go as far as right hand technique goes.

[gadgie]

I think it was the Police guitarist (can't remembert his name now) that said it takes a lot of skill to play at very high volumes. I have volume but no skill

[funkle]

I'm a floating thumb advocate, but I'm still not perfect with it, even after years of using it. I tend to get a lot of false harmonics from my thumb floating over the strings, even now (I seem to have a talent for it), and I have to put my floating thumb back nearer the bridge a fair bit to ameliorate this. I asked Todd Johnson about it over on Scott's Bass Lessons during a seminar he gave and he said he used to have a similar issue. His advice was just to move the thumb elsewhere.

Scott Devine has a useful variation of the floating thumb technique where he has more of a movable anchor. It feels a bit weird to me when I try it but it feels like it would work well if I stuck with it. I think it is less economical in motion, though, than floating thumb. The thumb ends up sitting on the pickup when playing E string, on E when playing A string, on D when playing G string. The thumb ends up pointing sideways a little but exerting pressure on the strings below the one being played to mute them. Works for him - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDSAd29kJ0o.

Joe Hubbard has yet another variation which I think sounds a lot like what Tom Kenrick uses. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXr75R2egt0. I can't watch it as blocked whilst at work but I think it's similar to Tom.

Not to neglect the left hand either when muting - I have found I can cause a lot of noise with my left hand from not being careful with taking my finger off the string; you might want to look at that too.

I second Tom Kenrick's suggestion that there has to be a certain amount of pressure on the string to get a good sound. The concept of a 'rest stroke' vs a 'free stroke' is useful here. 'Rest strokes' are where you play 'through' the string and land on the string below - what I do 90% of the time. Gives a nice punchy tone with a little percussive noise from landing on the string below. 'Free strokes' are much smaller movements and you do not land on the string below; it gives a much lighter/middier tone and allows for great speed. You do end up sounding more like Gary Willis. Gary Willis can play, but I do not like his tone.

In fact, I just want to give quick props to Tom Kenrick here - I've been enjoying his transcriptions a lot recently. I have also generally found that his commentary on various topics whenever I have seen them is solid and useful. Although, sorry Tom, I did make a few corrections when I've been playing through the 'I Keep Forgettin' full transcription...

Pete

[Truckstop]

It's been interesting reading this thread and I've been trying to actually introduce fret noise to see how I mute in a reverse engineering kind of way.

So, I found that I have a floating thumb style, but that a lot of the time when playing the D and G strings I actually use the plucking finger to mute.

For example, I'll play the D string with my index finger and once the string is plucked, my finger naturally drags onto the A string, muting it. At this point, my thumb is resting on the E and my fretting hand will mute the G.

I also found that I'll often start a riff in the same way (index finger, then rest on the string above) and play the rest of the riff with my middle and 3rd fingers leaving the index on the string that needs muting. My thumb won't touch the bass at all during this time.

I think it's something that came naturally over the years as I never had any lessons.

[cheddatom]

Not for everyone but... I started on guitar, and I really liked the percussive style I got from strumming the whole guitar, but just playing one or two notes, so I had to learn to mute the rest of the strings with my left hand. Sometimes this would be with fingers, sometimes with the thumb over the top of the neck. Not so easy on a 6 string bass, but in combination with my right hand it works pretty well.

[TKenrick]

[quote name='funkle' timestamp='1431948648' post='2776427']
Joe Hubbard has yet another variation which I think sounds a lot like what Tom Kenrick uses. - [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXr75R2egt0."]http://www.youtube.c...?v=FXr75R2egt0.[/url] I can't watch it as blocked whilst at work but I think it's similar to Tom.[/quote]

I used to [s]routinely get my arse kicked[/s] study with Joe and although we never talked about technique I'm sure he would've let me know if he disagreed with my right hand approach. What I do with my right hand is pretty similar to Joe, albeit much slower!

[quote name='funkle' timestamp='1431948648' post='2776427']
'Free strokes' are much smaller movements and you do not land on the string below; it gives a much lighter/middier tone and allows for great speed. You do end up sounding more like Gary Willis. Gary Willis can play, but I do not like his tone.[/quote]

Exactly. Gary is an incredible player and although I've stolen plenty of things from him, his tone is not something I wish to emulate.

[quote]In fact, I just want to give quick props to Tom Kenrick here - I've been enjoying his transcriptions a lot recently. I have also generally found that his commentary on various topics whenever I have seen them is solid and useful. Although, sorry Tom, I did make a few corrections when I've been playing through the 'I Keep Forgettin' full transcription...
[/quote]

Thanks Pete, that really means a lot to hear that people get something out of both the transcriptions and my occasional ramblings on BC. The 'I Keep Forgettin' transcription was done in 2007 when my ears were not quite as sharp as they are today, so I'm sure it's littered with mistakes! Any chance you could PM them to me and I'll make the necessary corrections (with full credit to you, of course).

Unfortunately my blog doesn't get the attention it deserves from me as it usually gets pushed out of the way by teaching and gigs, but at some point I'll have a play through everything in the archive to try and tidy up all of the mistakes!

[funkle]

Tom, I will PM you. I have Sib 7 so can edit whatever you have, if you wish to share.

I thought you and Joe had similar technique. Good to know.

I am currently studying with Joe and trying to do the bazillion hours of practice that logically flow on from his exercises. Great musical content.

Your blog is doing fine. I enjoyed playing through what you've put out there - I never would have looked at some of the stuff on my own I reckon - and I suspect there is a large silent majority appreciating the work you have done. I am inspired enough that I am going to try and commit to doing full-song playalongs on Youtube along with posting up dots.

Anyway, I'll stop there and let things get back on topic...

[Sibob]

My technique is exactly the same as Tom Ks above, a sort if hybrid of the full FT, essentially using your thumb to mute what isn't muted by your plucking fingers. I've certainly (naturally) found that to be the best for me live.

It's interesting to note that there are plenty of players who don't use FT at all and have impeccable muting, check out John Pattitucci on his 6 string.
It's about what works for you and gives you the cleanest notes! Many players obviously now use string dampeners around their bass neck, certainly not a replacement for good technique, but every little helps

Si

[JTUK]

Play very clean and if your fretting hand is precise you'll come off the string without it ringing..
Play clean and precise with you right hand and you'll not hit a ringing string...
Mute left hand but return your right hand plucking fingers always back on to the string...
unless you need/want to leave the string in sustain..

[ambient]

Can you video yourself playing ?

If you can't then maybe practice in front of a mirror, and try and recognise where the unwanted sounds are coming from, and identify where your hands are located.

I only play 6 string bass, i use a hybrid of the floating thumb thing. I used to study with Steve Lawson who uses the floating thumb technique. I tried it but didn't get on with it personally. My muting tends to come from both hands, my left hand taking care of the higher strings, and my right hand the lower ones. I move downwards with my plucking hand, so if I'm playing notes on the D string, then my thumb will be resting on E string.

Lessons are a good thing, a good teacher should be able to see what's going on, and offer advice on correcting it.

[Funky Dunky]

Making real headway with floating thumb. Muting is good and plucking speed beginning to pick up :-)

I will be sticking with this, it's not 'normal' or second nature yet, but it's becoming more comfortable.