Harlequin74 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hi all Based neat Tunbridge Wells/Sevenoaks area, we are a covers band playing soul, funk, some pop and having a real problem finding a keys player! Any advice, or perhaps someone you might know please let me know! Thanks and best wishes Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I can empathise.....been looking, asking and posting on different forums for ages. Not easy to find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlequin74 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 [quote name='Number6' timestamp='1432207682' post='2779148'] I can empathise.....been looking, asking and posting on different forums for ages. Not easy to find [/quote] And then.....every time we find one and audition? Turn up late.......forget the song list.......... Etc etc. Starting to think we will have to dep, as doont want to play along with midi files , or similar...... How do you manage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnythenotes Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I have been in Soul / Motown/ Funk bands for years, and every time we have worked with a keyboard player, it all turns to crap. It seems the better a player he or she is, the more they feel they have to prove this by stamping all over the 'space' that Funk / Soul / Motown has to have to work properly. With a bazillion synth and fake sounds at their disposal, they can turn a good band into a Bingo warm up act, with all their synthy /brassy/ stringy sounds instantly available.They take up as much space as a brass section, or a couple of guitar players, and the poor bozo standing behind the keyboard player, with no space whatsoever might as well go home as he can not be seen by the audience, and feels completely removed from the rest of the band.....The 'bozo' is also known as the bass player.....A keyboard player has a habit of holding down block chords ( particularly with his left hand, ) which absolutely ruins any bass lines, or sounds you USED to like playing. Image wise, nothing looks worse rhan the back of a keyboard, with wires spewing out of the back, and a music stand on top of rhe whole wretched thing... It looks gash....My only concession would be a piano player, as this is a percussion instrument, in that when you stop hitting it, it stops making a noise. If you are fortunate enough to find a keyboard player that does none of the above, does not have an over inflated sense of self importance, and also understands the less he does, the more it makes every thing else stand out, then you are extremely lucky, or a miracle worker.Personally, I would avoid a keyboard player like the plague......get a good sax player or sax and trumpet...they look great, take up less room, and act as punctuation in a band,instead of an avalanche of what's not needed...... There you go..... My fire and brimstone anti keyboard sermon is over, but it's true.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 We're also in the market for a "good" keyboard player - talking to a drummer friend recently who complained that he's also been looking for years without success...at least we're not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Finding a keyboard player's easy, follow the signs that say 'Labyrinth This Way' then when you see the talking unicorn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlequin74 Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Thanks Guys, at least i am now smiling! Jonny, do you use any midis or similar for keys lines, or do you substitute their parts for sax etc? On songs that we do like Stevie Wonder, 'do i do' or 'i wish', it really needs keys dont you think..? Why cant all other musicians be as reasonable and hard working as bass players eh , he he Edited May 22, 2015 by Harlequin74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 We got lucky and found a good one, who also plays the sax! Winner. The way we went about it was to ring around al the local piano teachers. One of the teachers was nifty on the keyboard and fancied it, so maybe give that a try? Worked for us! If the teachers themselves aren't keen, surely they'll know some people who may be? Good luck. Having a good keys player makes a huge difference to our sound, although i do appreciate what some have said about them needing to be good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) [quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1432221062' post='2779361'] I have been in Soul / Motown/ Funk bands for years, and every time we have worked with a keyboard player, it all turns to crap. It seems the better a player he or she is, the more they feel they have to prove this by stamping all over the 'space' that Funk / Soul / Motown has to have to work properly. With a bazillion synth and fake sounds at their disposal, they can turn a good band into a Bingo warm up act, with all their synthy /brassy/ stringy sounds instantly available.They take up as much space as a brass section, or a couple of guitar players, and the poor bozo standing behind the keyboard player, with no space whatsoever might as well go home as he can not be seen by the audience, and feels completely removed from the rest of the band.....The 'bozo' is also known as the bass player.....A keyboard player has a habit of holding down block chords ( particularly with his left hand, ) which absolutely ruins any bass lines, or sounds you USED to like playing. Image wise, nothing looks worse rhan the back of a keyboard, with wires spewing out of the back, and a music stand on top of rhe whole wretched thing... It looks gash....My only concession would be a piano player, as this is a percussion instrument, in that when you stop hitting it, it stops making a noise. If you are fortunate enough to find a keyboard player that does none of the above, does not have an over inflated sense of self importance, and also understands the less he does, the more it makes every thing else stand out, then you are extremely lucky, or a miracle worker.Personally, I would avoid a keyboard player like the plague......get a good sax player or sax and trumpet...they look great, take up less room, and act as punctuation in a band,instead of an avalanche of what's not needed...... There you go..... My fire and brimstone anti keyboard sermon is over, but it's true.. [/quote] Not a fan then? 😄 My brother plays keys. However, he's a multi-instrumentalist (including being a superb drummer). He sings so his keys are at the front of the stage. It did take him a few years of prodding until he understood 'less is more'. Although there's a lot of musicians playing other instruments who still don't get the basic concept. Unless you tell people they're over-playing, they'll continue playing in the same way. Edited May 22, 2015 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1432295486' post='2780112'] Unless you tell people they're over-playing, they'll continue playing in the same way. [/quote] I have had to do this with the last two keyboard players we've had. I seem to be the delegated voice for this as everyone else is too chicken. It is probably also because most keyboard players we've had are actually trained piano players, so feel they have to use their left hand and just trample over and muddy up the bass player's range. The current one is learning, but keeps looking like a child who has had his toys removed for being bad when we tell him he needs to play simple organ/chord swells rather than New Orleans jive piano on everything... Edited May 22, 2015 by Huge Hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlequin74 Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1432298742' post='2780168'] I have had to do this with the last two keyboard players we've had. I seem to be the delegated voice for this as everyone else is too chicken. It is probably also because most keyboard players we've had are actually trained piano players, so feel they have to use their left hand and just trample over and muddy up the bass player's range. The current one is learning, but keeps looking like a child who has had his toys removed for being bad when we tell him he needs to play simple organ/chord swells rather than New Orleans jive piano on everything... [/quote] Well we are only in Crowborough/tun wells , so can we borrow yours please......from time to time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1432221062' post='2779361'] I have been in Soul / Motown/ Funk bands for years, and every time we have worked with a keyboard player, it all turns to crap. It seems the better a player he or she is, the more they feel they have to prove this by stamping all over the 'space' that Funk / Soul / Motown has to have to work properly. With a bazillion synth and fake sounds at their disposal, they can turn a good band into a Bingo warm up act, with all their synthy /brassy/ stringy sounds instantly available.They take up as much space as a brass section, or a couple of guitar players, and the poor bozo standing behind the keyboard player, with no space whatsoever might as well go home as he can not be seen by the audience, and feels completely removed from the rest of the band.....The 'bozo' is also known as the bass player.....A keyboard player has a habit of holding down block chords ( particularly with his left hand, ) which absolutely ruins any bass lines, or sounds you USED to like playing. Image wise, nothing looks worse rhan the back of a keyboard, with wires spewing out of the back, and a music stand on top of rhe whole wretched thing... It looks gash....My only concession would be a piano player, as this is a percussion instrument, in that when you stop hitting it, it stops making a noise. If you are fortunate enough to find a keyboard player that does none of the above, does not have an over inflated sense of self importance, and also understands the less he does, the more it makes every thing else stand out, then you are extremely lucky, or a miracle worker.Personally, I would avoid a keyboard player like the plague......get a good sax player or sax and trumpet...they look great, take up less room, and act as punctuation in a band,instead of an avalanche of what's not needed...... There you go..... My fire and brimstone anti keyboard sermon is over, but it's true.. [/quote] Im with this guy ^^^ I've always found with a keyboard player, its something you want there on some songs and not at all on others. Its also another person to keep happy and less 'room' you have to play with as a band at gigs. I have seen it work though plenty of times with a singer/keyboardist [i](is [u]keyboardist [/u]a word/thing?) [/i]with the keyboard off to the side of them using it occasionally. Personally and probably immaturely I also think its slightly uncool to have a keyboard ist/player/piano man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1432298742' post='2780168'] I have had to do this with the last two keyboard players we've had. I seem to be the delegated voice for this as everyone else is too chicken. It is probably also because most keyboard players we've had are actually trained piano players, so feel they have to use their left hand and just trample over and muddy up the bass player's range. The current one is learning, but keeps looking like a child who has had his toys removed for being bad when we tell him he needs to play simple organ/chord swells rather than New Orleans jive piano on everything... [/quote]A Keytard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Difficulty 1: Finding a keys player Difficulty 2: Finding one that can play in a band context I only know one such player but he's fully committed to a "named" band. Whereas I know dozens of guitarists, bass players and drummers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 My band is a Hawkwind Covers / tribute (small t) so i would argue Keys are essential Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1432308552' post='2780331'] Difficulty 1: Finding a keys player Difficulty 2: Finding one that can play in a band context [/quote] This, plus a lot of really good players tend to stick to either playing in pit bands, jazz groups, or doing solo function work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Have you thought of contacting your local music college ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1432309865' post='2780353'] Have you thought of contacting your local music college ? [/quote] Interestingly my son who is studying performing arts is asking around at his college Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='Harlequin74' timestamp='1432306712' post='2780292'] Well we are only in Crowborough/tun wells , so can we borrow yours please......from time to time [/quote] Ha ha, sorry mate, this band is based in Central London, and he's from north London. I think it would be a bit far for him. If you want, I can put my boxing gloves on and have a shot at for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1432307430' post='2780310'] Im with this guy ^^^ I've always found with a keyboard player, its something you want there on some songs and not at all on others. Its also another person to keep happy and less 'room' you have to play with as a band at gigs. I have seen it work though plenty of times with a singer/keyboardist [i](is [u]keyboardist [/u]a word/thing?) [/i]with the keyboard off to the side of them using it occasionally. Personally and probably immaturely I also think its slightly uncool to have a keyboard ist/player/piano man [/quote] Depends on the keyboard. Ideally a 5 octave keyboard is all you need. Then having the keys diagonally rather than facing the audience as otherwise it can act like a barrier between the player and the audience. Especially if they have a music folder plonked on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 [quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1432308120' post='2780321'] A Keytard? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnythenotes Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Hi Harlequin. Before you press on any further in your search for a keyboard player, I would really try another way of performing the songs you think you can't do without a keyboard player... Remove all the modern stuff ( effects and trickery)you use in the band until you are left with the guitars, the leads, the amps the speakers and vocals... All the pedals and effects...put em on hold for a while. Once you have painted yourself into a corner, and got rid of everything you think you need, start playing the songs...say a Stevie Wonder tune, and replace what you have got rid of with aggression. It might sound a bit odd at first, but very quickly you will hear your instruments and musicianship shining through, instead of hearing the artificial stuff that hides and stifles so many good musicians. I think you will find it far more exiting if you take a 'lets make do with what we've got' approach to the band, instead of trying to hear and create what you haven't got, and perhaps don't need, or adding things because they were there on the original recordings. Entertaining an audience has nothing to do with the size of the band, the beats per minute, the style of music or how loud you are. It's about getting them to believe in what you are doing and getting them to buy in to every note you play. The delivery of your music is everything... It's not the size of the bore, but the force of the shot that counts.. Just look at the energy The Pistols, The Jam, The Strokes, The Police etc did, and still do, with the most basic of instruments and effects... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlequin74 Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 [quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1432325960' post='2780607'] Hi Harlequin. Before you press on any further in your search for a keyboard player, I would really try another way of performing the songs you think you can't do without a keyboard player... Remove all the modern stuff ( effects and trickery)you use in the band until you are left with the guitars, the leads, the amps the speakers and vocals... All the pedals and effects...put em on hold for a while. Once you have painted yourself into a corner, and got rid of everything you think you need, start playing the songs...say a Stevie Wonder tune, and replace what you have got rid of with aggression. It might sound a bit odd at first, but very quickly you will hear your instruments and musicianship shining through, instead of hearing the artificial stuff that hides and stifles so many good musicians. I think you will find it far more exiting if you take a 'lets make do with what we've got' approach to the band, instead of trying to hear and create what you haven't got, and perhaps don't need, or adding things because they were there on the original recordings. Entertaining an audience has nothing to do with the size of the band, the beats per minute, the style of music or how loud you are. It's about getting them to believe in what you are doing and getting them to buy in to every note you play. The delivery of your music is everything... It's not the size of the bore, but the force of the shot that counts.. Just look at the energy The Pistols, The Jam, The Strokes, The Police etc did, and still do, with the most basic of instruments and effects... [/quote] I like your thinking alot Jonny! At present we have a playlist of around 30 songs, with female vocal, guitar, drums and bass, and have a great groove. Perhaps i am overthinking it? Maybe the other way to go is find another rythmn guitar, work on the groove and reselect the song list to suit. But keeping the great soul, funk vibe we seem to have together....... Food for thought, thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnythenotes Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 That's a great approach to take Harlequin....let me know how you get on. All the best with it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlequin74 Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 [quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1432360092' post='2780762'] That's a great approach to take Harlequin....let me know how you get on. All the best with it.... [/quote] Cheers for the advice, Guru Jonny. Will keep you informed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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