Recording an upright

[dudi8]

Hi!
How do you record your DB? Only piezo to an interface? Or also a mic?

[henrywillard]

Always a Mic! I never take a line from my Wilson K4 pickup, as much as I love it.

In my own studio, I'm currently favouring a Blue Kiwi bass bar side of the lower bout, and a couple of stereo Rode NT5's higher up and set further back for more of a room sound, although I'm always experimenting.

The one thing that absolutely breaks my heart is going into a studio to lay down some bass for someone, and the engineer/producer fails to capture the real sound of my bass. It's not overly difficult to get an amazing, real, woody double bass sound, but it amazes me how many fail.

[dudi8]

[quote name='henrywillard' timestamp='1432769693' post='2784925']
Always a Mic! I never take a line from my Wilson K4 pickup, as much as I love it.

In my own studio, I'm currently favouring a Blue Kiwi bass bar side of the lower bout, and a couple of stereo Rode NT5's higher up and set further back for more of a room sound, although I'm always experimenting.

The one thing that absolutely breaks my heart is going into a studio to lay down some bass for someone, and the engineer/producer fails to capture the real sound of my bass. It's not overly difficult to get an amazing, real, woody double bass sound, but it amazes me how many fail.
[/quote]

Thanks!
Actually I'm talking more home recording, less proffesional equipment
So should I get a mic? Which mic can you recommend? Should I use clip on mic like the DPA or other mics?

[henrywillard]

I had a DPA a few years back that I tried for live work. The sound was incredible, but I had endless feedback problems, so subsequently sold it on. I never actually got round to trying it in the studio.

There are so many microphones on the market these days. You can pick up a matched pair of Rode NT5's brand new for £129 with free delivery from Andertons (if you're in the UK?). They require phantom power, but for the price are an absolutely steal. Very, very powerful, sensitive microphones, but you'll immediately fall in love with them. Great real sound.
You could go for a bog-standard SM57, but I'm not a fan of them on double bass. I find 57's have a bit of a muddy sound to them when it comes to recording upright.

[dudi8]

[quote name='henrywillard' timestamp='1432801450' post='2785036']
I had a DPA a few years back that I tried for live work. The sound was incredible, but I had endless feedback problems, so subsequently sold it on. I never actually got round to trying it in the studio.

There are so many microphones on the market these days. You can pick up a matched pair of Rode NT5's brand new for £129 with free delivery from Andertons (if you're in the UK?). They require phantom power, but for the price are an absolutely steal. Very, very powerful, sensitive microphones, but you'll immediately fall in love with them. Great real sound.
You could go for a bog-standard SM57, but I'm not a fan of them on double bass. I find 57's have a bit of a muddy sound to them when it comes to recording upright.
[/quote]

i saw that only one costs 129 pounds, do i need 2? where do you position them?
and can you recommend an audio interface? (again, for home beginners )

[TPJ]

A few mics may give you a better "room" sound. We've placed mics in all sorts of positions. Last time was a SM58 wrapped in foam stuck in the bridge feet plus a nice valve mic about 2 feet away at bridge level with a condenser somewhere else in the room. We also fed just a little piezo into the mix. Another time we stuck a 57, valve condenser and a D112 pointing at various angles towards the top but all at bridge level and about 1-2 feet away. Depends with the tone/sound you're after. Experimentaion will be your friend I can't recommend an interface as I leave that to the other guys.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Before you commit to buying a mic, it is worth seeing if you can borrow any mics to experiment with (even vocal/drum mics that would be typically used for live/PA use rather than recording) - mic positioning is pretty important, and it is possible to get subjectively pleasing results using inexpensive dynamic mics (proximity effect is your potential friend/enemy) if you aren't concerned with the ultimate in hi-fidelity results.

Worth considering the overall situation of your existing monitoring, your budget and what you want to use the recordings for - I've used an old AKG vocal dynamic mic between the bridge legs, and a Zoom H2N as a room mic and got some really nice IMHO results considering the lack of care taken in their recording.

The Zoom has really impressed me, and proved to be very useful - so far I've only used it for standalone recording of personal practice and band rehearsals, but it can be used as a USB audio interface and came bundled with cubase le and wavelab le. As yet I haven't invested much effort into exploring all the features of the H2N, I could dig out a mic stand and check out using it for closer micing and how it fares hooked up direct to the PC later and post some sample audio clips when I have some spare time if you are interested.

[dudi8]

will an audio-technica ATM350 with focusrite Scarlett 2i2/Presonus audiobox will be sufficient for recording?

[dudi8]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1432807048' post='2785100']
Before you commit to buying a mic, it is worth seeing if you can borrow any mics to experiment with (even vocal/drum mics that would be typically used for live/PA use rather than recording) - mic positioning is pretty important, and it is possible to get subjectively pleasing results using inexpensive dynamic mics (proximity effect is your potential friend/enemy) if you aren't concerned with the ultimate in hi-fidelity results.

Worth considering the overall situation of your existing monitoring, your budget and what you want to use the recordings for - I've used an old AKG vocal dynamic mic between the bridge legs, and a Zoom H2N as a room mic and got some really nice IMHO results considering the lack of care taken in their recording.

The Zoom has really impressed me, and proved to be very useful - so far I've only used it for standalone recording of personal practice and band rehearsals, but it can be used as a USB audio interface and came bundled with cubase le and wavelab le. As yet I haven't invested much effort into exploring all the features of the H2N, I could dig out a mic stand and check out using it for closer micing and how it fares hooked up direct to the PC later and post some sample audio clips when I have some spare time if you are interested.
[/quote]

if you can post some audio samples that would be great! Thanks!

[Guest Jecklin]

Slightly going off on a tangent, this double bass and piano duo was recorded in one take using a stereo pair of microphones - line audio cm3's.

Mira Opalińska and Douglas Whates.

http://youtu.be/EiHWg_Ju_9I

Edited May 28, 2015 by Jecklin

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Here are some audio samples using the Zoom H2N.

Recordings were made in a room with no acoustic treatment, the double bass used is a strunal 50/4 all ply, strung with spirocore weich, I have only been playing DB for a few months which obviously limits my ability to pull optimum tone out of the instrument. I opted to play fairly percussively to show how the H2N handles the low end and fast trebly transients. I still haven't investigated all the features and micing modes of the H2N, so I don't think that these recordings represent the very best that the unit can deliver, but hopefully they give an idea of what it is capable of.

I edited down the length of both the ambient room mic file and sustained scale in audacity, otherwise the audio is unprocessed and as is direct from the H2N. Apart from making an adjustment to the gain on the H2N when moving to close micing, the only adjustments made were positioning the unit.

First I recorded at a distance of approx 3 meters, the H2N was stood on a table using its mini tripod at waist height.
[attachment=193066:room_mic_3M.wav]

I mounted the H2N on a mic stand and recorded this take with the unit at bridge height and at a distance of approx 60cm from the front of the bass
[attachment=193067:close_mic_60CM.WAV]

I then moved the unit to approx 25cm from the front of the bass for this take
[attachment=193068:close_mic_25CM.WAV]

Just to provide some contrast after listening back to the other recordings, I also recorded a one octave scale using sustained notes at ~60cm distance
[attachment=193069:fmajor.wav]

Files are all .WAV format, you'll need to download them and rename them to change the erroneous filename extension that the forum software adds. ***edit*** just tried clicking the links and they do appear to play using the VLC firefox plugin so downloading may be unneccessary

The obvious drawback of the H2N compared to regular mics is the limitation of not being able to use long balanced cables, and being tethered to the PC by a USB cable if you want to use it for multitracking (which might be more or less of an issue depending on whether you use a laptop or desktop, and how noisy/quiet the cooling fans are), the big upside is that it is fantastic as an ultra-portable self contained unit that can deliver hours of high quality recordings on a couple of AA batteries - I've used it mostly for recording my own practice and band rehearsals(both loud blues band, and quiet acoustic scenario) and rate it as one of the most useful bits of kit I've ever bought(I grabbed the bundle at thomann which included the accessory pack, which is definately worth getting for items like the case and mic stand adapter).

Edited May 29, 2015 by SubsonicSimpleton