Necks..How bent... is TOO bent?

[Sarah5string]

I noticed today that the neck on my (new) Dean is slightly bent from the 5th fret up. I say slightly as it's not massively but enough for me to notice. Apparently it's an 'up bow' bend.. (good old google). Have a gig on saturday and need to sort out the intonation and action and was going to do this tonight before I spotted the bend. It's not too extreme so I was wondering whether to leave it? I read that apparently necks should have a slight bend... but the neck on my 5 string is bolt straight.. so I don't know which to believe..
What do you guys think?

[WarPig]

If it aint broke dont fix it.

A few times i wish i had listened to that haha

If its not slowing you down or making any strange noises, dont worry about it.

Edited August 25, 2008 by WarPig

[Sarah5string]

[quote name='WarPig' post='269588' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:47 PM']If it aint broke dont fix it.

A few times i wish i had listened to that haha [/quote]
Well the action and intonation needs sorting out.. just worried that I'll make it worse or something by sorting it out!

[small_lump_of_green_putty]

I've found necks usually bend most under 10-14th frets. If yours is bending most somewhere else, you might have a problem the truss rod can't fix. you can sort the intonation out by comparing the plucked harmonic to the fretted 12th fret note using a tuner. The closer they are to one another, the better the intonation.

[Sarah5string]

[quote name='Stinkywhizzleteats' post='269594' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:51 PM']I've found necks usually bend most under 10-14th frets. If yours is bending most somewhere else, you might have a problem the truss rod can't fix. you can sort the intonation out by comparing the plucked harmonic to the fretted 12th fret note using a tuner. The closer they are to one another, the better the intonation.[/quote]
Don't say that.. it's only a couple of months old!

[Kiwi]

If you sight down the neck across the top of the frets, can you see any variation in how the frets line up with one another? Is the neck warped? If so, it might be covered by a guarantee.

[Sarah5string]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='269598' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:54 PM']If you sight down the neck across the top of the frets, can you see any variation in how the frets line up with one another? Is the neck warped? If so, it might be covered by a guarantee.[/quote]
How do you mean? From what it looks the whole neck curves to the right after the 5th fret.

[Dubs]

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='269600' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:58 PM']How do you mean? From what it looks the whole neck curves to the right after the 5th fret.[/quote]

maybe try and take a pic? I don't know how feasible this is or how well it will show up the problem though...

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='269600' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:58 PM']How do you mean? From what it looks the whole neck curves to the right after the 5th fret.[/quote]
Does the curve look consistent on both sides of the neck when you sight down it? Is the curve (such as it is) a smooth one?

[OldG]

A neck should have a slightly visible bow to allow the action to be set low - post a photo from the headstock down if you can ...

Edited August 25, 2008 by OldG

[6stringbassist]

Hold the string down at the 1st fret with you forefinger, then put your elbow on the string at the bottom of the neck.

You will be able to see then where the relief is.

Tightening the truss rod will remove too much relief, it's a quite simple procedure.

Try and get it as close to straight as possible, if the strings rattle too much then just raise the action at the bridge, just a slight turn each time until the rattle stops.

[4000]

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='269587' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:44 PM']I noticed today that the neck on my (new) Dean is slightly bent from the 5th fret up. I say slightly as it's not massively but enough for me to notice. Apparently it's an 'up bow' bend.. (good old google). Have a gig on saturday and need to sort out the intonation and action and was going to do this tonight before I spotted the bend. It's not too extreme so I was wondering whether to leave it? I read that apparently necks should have a slight bend... but the neck on my 5 string is bolt straight.. so I don't know which to believe..
What do you guys think?[/quote]

Assuming that it's just a neck relief issue, the amount of relief you should have in your neck depends on how you play and your personal preference. Rickenbacker and Pedulla (and probably Alembic since that's how mine came) aim for dead straight. Other manufacturers and luthiers will advise differently. But really, it's down to you.

I usually gauge my necks by feel and sound (I like a touch of fret buzz); one way of judging how straight it is is to fret your E at the first fret with your left hand, fret the twelfth fret with the thumb of your right hand, and tap the string around the 7th with your extended right hand fingers. You should get a reasonably clear tapping sound. It you don't, it's generally considered too straight. If there's a lot of fret clearance, then it's too forward bowed, again as a generalisation. As I say, this will depend somewhat on your preference; if you play harder you will likely need more relief, and the lighter you play the less relief you will need. Assuming there are no other neck issues, a tweak of the truss rod either way should suffice. Apologies if you already know all this.

Ah, beat me to it....I should type faster!

Edited August 25, 2008 by 4000

[andyonbass]

I'm sure you must have seen the Gary Willis site, but if not, [url="http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html"]here it is[/url]

Very useful!

[skankdelvar]

Hi - as per your other thread: suggest you leave it till after the gig, unless it's much less playable than before.

You may have only just noticed that the neck has a slight bow on it. Don't worry - it's [i]meant [/i]to have a slight amount of bow to allow the strings to vibrate - see attached sketch.

[attachment=12640:neckrelief.jpg]

So, come Sunday, when you come to do it.

[b]Check the relief[/b]

Holding the bass in a sitting playing position, with your left hand fret the E string, (or the b if it's a 5-string) at the first fret. Place your right hand little finger on the same string at the 15th fret. The string should now form a straight line between these two frets. There should be a very slight gap of around 1mm between the bottom of the string and the 8th fret. This is about normal. (Keeping your little finger on the string, try tapping the string with your thumb. There should be a little 'impact' as the string hits the fret).

Much more than a mill or two and it'll be difficult to play

Much less, or flat to fingerboard, and you'll get fret buzz and a floppy tone.

[b]To adjust the neck relief[/b]

* Remove the truss rod cover on the headstock. Put the very lose-able screws to one side, in a saucer or something

* Slacken off the strings completely.

* Using the correct tool - allen key, screwdriver, as recommended by the Mfr - insert tool into truss rod cavity and engage with the truss rod nut

* To flatten the neck out more: Tighten the truss rod - Turn clockwise (this is the usual way, but check with the Mfr first)

* To increase the bow : Loosen the truss rod - Turn anti-clockwise (this is the usual way, but check with the Mfr first

* Turn no more than 1/8th of a turn. (If you're tightening the truss rod there should be a little resistance at first, but if the nut will not turn - stop! Go to your repairer. )

* After making the turn, return your strings to normal pitch, give them each a little tug to take the slack off the string turns on the tuner post, retune again
and try the 'check' as described above

* If the string are now buzzing on the frets, or the action feels too low, repeat the above procedure, loosening the truss rod, but now only by a 16th of a turn
* If the strings are too high, repeat the above procedure, tightening the truss rod, but now only by a 16th of a turn

In this way, you can gently zero in on the right amount of relief. Setting neck relief takes a while to do, as you need to make small adjustments and then check, and then adjust again, etc until you're happy with how it feels and sounds.

[b]Finishing off[/b]

Once you've set your neck relief, make any adjustments you may wish to make to string height by adjusting your bridge saddles.

Finally, check and if necessary set your intonation - it will have changed during the procedure. As a tip, try setting the intonation on your G string 5 cents flat. I find it helps to make the sound slightly sweeter when tuning at 5th fret or using 5th > 7th harmonics.

Finally, replace your truss rod cover. Nice, eh?

Check the neck relief after a few days to make sure it's settled in OK. It may need further minor tweaking to settle down.

Edited August 25, 2008 by skankdelvar

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='269680' date='Aug 25 2008, 07:07 PM']It should have some relief. A completely straight neck will rattle badly at the lower frets.

A reasonable amount is a business card's thickness half way between the first fret and the point where the neck meets the body when you hold the string down at the 1st and last frets.[/quote]

Mines flat and doesn't rattle, the action at the 12th fret is about 1.5/2mm.

I use 120-30 strings, I do have quite a light playing style, but fast fingerstyle doesn't cause any rattles.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='269686' date='Aug 25 2008, 07:12 PM']Mines flat and doesn't rattle, the action at the 12th fret is about 1.5/2mm.

I use 120-30 strings, I do have quite a light playing style, but fast fingerstyle doesn't cause any rattles.[/quote]

Well, YMMV. The OP's playing metal (?) on a Dean Metal Man bass. Smidge of relief would help with all that right hand action. Matron.

BTW - If, fretted 1 and end, your neck relief at the 12th is 1.5 - 2mm, then clearly you have a measurable relief.

If, OTOH, I'm misunderstanding and you mean 1.5 - 2mm unfretted, then that's brilliantly low, and reflects your excellent choice of bass for the music you're playing. Those are pretty light strings, which theoretically should [i]increase[/i] fret-buzz. You must have the touch of a jeweller...

Nice work sir.

[kevbass]

Some sound advice here, but, if you really want to put your mind at ease, take it to a local guitar luthier / technician (not to the place you bought it from) and say to them "look at this neck, what do you think" and if they say yeah its fine all is well then you can relax knowing you've had a pro look at it for you, if they say yes its slightly warped then ask them to adjust it for you, or if its still under guarantee take it back and say "This is warped dont try and tell me otherwise can you sort it please"

[Sarah5string]

Have ust adjusted the action/intonation and the neck has straightened out a bit so guess it must've been the string tension or something.
Thanks everyone for the advice.

[waynepunkdude]

[url="http://www.comfort-trac.com/neck_pillows.htm"]This[/url] might help a bent neck