Festival - provide your own PA

[Cato]

[quote name='DorsetBlue' timestamp='1433348634' post='2790361']
Clarification is in....apparently when they said PA, they meant the same level of PA that you have in a usual pub gig environment i.e. vocals with the guitars and bass using amps and drum purely acoustic. So the stage in question would appear to be based on a standard of a pub gig level.
[/quote]

So, in a nutshell, when they said 'PA' they didn't actually mean PA. (still worth checking what they think everybody is going to put the vocal mics through though).

[TheRev]

So are they expecting each band to supply their own pub gig level PA?

Or are they saying they supply a vocal PA and the rest of the instruments just use backline?

[JapanAxe]

Last year my band played a country music festival where each band brings their own PA. All 5 bands set up along 2 lorry trailers (3 smallest on one, 2 largest on the other), and each plays 2x 1-hour slots throughout the day. All are supposed to be set by 10am but we were the only ones who managed this!

Strangely it works ok. My Bose PA handled vocals and just a bit of mic'd up 15W guitar amp (which it probably didn't need), and bass and drums were left to their own devices. It was hilarious to hear another band repeatedly hitting the snare drum in an apparently fruitless attempt to get a decent sound through their monster PA rig!

We're doing it again this year...

[urbanx]

I'm assuming in this situation they are envisaging each band to set up their vocal PA in roughly the same time it takes them to set up their amps?

(It'd take me longer to set up a single speaker stand than it would my whole rig! )

[DorsetBlue]

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1433363393' post='2790521']
So are they expecting each band to supply their own pub gig level PA?
[/quote]

Each band to provide their own pub level vocal PA.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='DorsetBlue' timestamp='1433407169' post='2790757']
Each band to provide their own pub level vocal PA.
[/quote]

Interesting - if there's a good few bands this could make things a little slower - but replacing PA for vocals is a lot faster than redoing an entire sound system!

[Dad3353]

Not the same circumstances, but this Saturday, we're playing out in a similar fashion, I'd say. It's part of the animations for our local cycle race day, and the town square has a few spots set apart for 3 groups. We'll each set up our rigs (modest pub-style PA's...) during the cycling, and will be ready in early evening (more if affinity..!) to regale the public, in turn, with our musical offerings. No set-up time lost between sets, and each with adequate PA 'cover' for the diffusion. It's a village square, not 20 acres of field, and 105db at 50 metres is not required. It'll be fun; we've done this sort of event several times in the past, it's for our local crowd, so a very 'family' affair. There's no money involved, just a day/evening organised by the cycling association. A good day will be had by all, if the weather is true to current form.
So, 'Yes', it can be done, and can work well. It's not the same as Woodstock or Glastonbury; it sounds as if the OP is describing this sort of venue.

[Rich]

[quote name='DorsetBlue' timestamp='1433320039' post='2789966']
Okay, this is for a colleague of mine. His son (14) and friends are in a band and they have been picked to play on a minor stage at a small local festival in a 'Battle of the Bands' kind of format. They have been told that they will need to provide their own PA, as last year [b]some of the bands claimed they were not very good because of the provided PA[/b].
[/quote]
After the race, an angry Sebastian Vettel said, "The only reason I was 12th is because I was given blue gloves. I would have won if they had been red."

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='DorsetBlue' timestamp='1433407169' post='2790757']
Each band to provide their own pub level vocal PA.
[/quote]

I think there must be some misunderstanding here. This isn't really a festival but more like a village fete where someone wants to give the kids a chance to play. Is that right?

In any case what they are proposing isn't really a practical proposition. This sounds like someone who has been delegated to do a job they know very little about and doesn't want to take on a huge task.

I used to run stages at festivals. Even a small pub PA is going to take 30mins to set up, assuming nothing goes wrong. If the people setting up don't know much about equipment, or are setting up an unfamiliar system then an hour to set up would be a more realistic target. That's not allowing for carrying the gear up to the stage. We gig 20 times a year, I've been running PA for forty years and we still allow an hour to set up our gear for pub gigs. That's not allowing for the previous band to take their PA away. An hour between bands means no audience.

If you want to have a quick turn round of bands the more gear you share the better. I also wouldn't attempt this without at least one competent sound engineer and the ability to mix the sound from out in the audience.

The other thing is that you will need a bigger PA for an outdoor event. Without walls and ceilings the sound is radiated 360 degrees, distances to the audiences are bigger and there is usually a high level of ambient noise, generally you'd aim for at least an extra 6db of sound. You'll be able to hear well enough but you'll also be able to talk over the band at only slightly elevated levels if that helps you picture the sound you'll get.

I'm not one who is throwing accusations of cynicism at the organisers but they really don't know what they are doing. Get together with the other bands and sort this out between you or go back to the organisers and tell them to find someone who is competent to take responsibility. I'm assuming this is a charity or some sort of community event, if not then walk away might be the best advice.

If you want to go ahead because your colleagues lad needs to get a chance to play then it might be possible to get a local band to set up their PA for the kids and run the sound, it won't be Glastonbury but at least it won't be a shambles and it wouldn't be too expensive to hire.

One last thought, you can't put a load of electrical gear out on damp ground safely, have they thought about a waterproof stage and about electrical safety or even an electrical supply?

Edited June 5, 2015 by Phil Starr

[cameltoe]

Even a pokey pub PA for vocals and a bit of FOH support will take a good 30-45 minutes to set up, plus soundcheck, regardless of the fact it will be utterly useless at an outdoor festival.

As others have said, it makes so much more sense to hire a decent PA hire company to come and run this for the whole event.

Sorry that's not the most helpful post, but it's the truth!

[Dad3353]

I'd disagree with both of the above posts, if we're talking 'village fête', rather than full-blown festival. As pointed out in my previous post, we do this just about every year, mostly using a pair of HK RS150x tops, a BST 2 x 300w head and no monitors. It works well for covering an area in front of a trailer parked in the town square, but won't, of course, blow out the windows. Vox only, with a soupçon of kick and overhead to blend in the drums; that's it. Typically, we'd set up at around 15h00 for playing our set around 22h00. Other groups have similar set-ups, dotted around. We play our sets in alternance, so there is no delay between sets, as whilst one is preparing, another is finishing.
I've assisted for many years in organising our local 'big' festival, too (Les 3 Elephants; look it up..?), and so am quite aware of the difference between a 'Glasto' stage and a 'Battle of the Bands' set-up. I'm not saying that the organisation discussed by the OP is ideal; merely that it can and does work in some circumstances, with no hassle. There are many variants on the interpretation of 'festival', I'd say; one size does not fit all.

[RockfordStone]

there must be something missing here..... even a village fete would be more organised than to expect all bands to provide their own PA... if you are asking multiple bands to perform, then surely you should be providing the PA not expecting each band to set up and take down one...

id be telling them no

[Raymondo]

[quote name='DorsetBlue' timestamp='1433320039' post='2789966']
Okay, this is for a colleague of mine. His son (14) and friends are in a band and they have been picked to play on a [b]minor stage at a small local festival [/b]in a 'Battle of the Bands' kind of format. They have been told that they will need to provide their own PA, as [b]last year some of the bands claimed they were not very good because of the provided PA.[/b]
Now I have never used a PA and neither has my colleague (both Brass players historically) - so we are not sure what level of equipment this would entail. Does anyone have any experience of this kind of thing and could suggest what type of kit (possibly with examples) that they should be looking at?
[/quote]


This made me think that it was one stage being used by a few bands.......hence the opinion that each band setting up their own PA between sets would take too long.

If as Dad says they are all setting up in different areas and playing at different times then fine ,I can see how that would work.

All along people have been saying that more information is required!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1433517507' post='2791796']
there must be something missing here..... even a village fete would be more organised than to expect all bands to provide their own PA... if you are asking multiple bands to perform [b]on one, unique, stage[/b], then surely you should be providing the PA not expecting each band to set up and take down one...

id be telling them no
[/quote]

Fixed..?

[mcnach]

[quote name='DorsetBlue' timestamp='1433320039' post='2789966']
Okay, this is for a colleague of mine. His son (14) and friends are in a band and they have been picked to play on a minor stage at a small local festival in a 'Battle of the Bands' kind of format. They have been told that they will need to provide their own PA, as last year some of the bands claimed they were not very good because of the provided PA.
Now I have never used a PA and neither has my colleague (both Brass players historically) - so we are not sure what level of equipment this would entail. Does anyone have any experience of this kind of thing and could suggest what type of kit (possibly with examples) that they should be looking at?
[/quote]

The organiser should have arranged for a PA to be brought in and used. It is not reasonable to expect each band to bring and set their own. Battle of the bands? Just don't... It sounds like a disaster. Let the organiser "organise" the event, including PA, or pass.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1433324387' post='2790046']
It sounds to me like a mix-up in terminology. It's inconceivable for bands to provide PA in such circumstances, both for technical and financial reasons. Could it mean 'supply your own backline', that's to say the individual amps and cabs that the musicians play through..? That would make (a bit...) more sense, I think. Confirmation of requirements is the next step, I'd suggest.
[/quote]

yes, this makes more sense, if it's a misunderstanding.

[xgsjx]

Setting up vocal PA shouldn't take too long, but I'd still get in touch with the other bands & see if they want to chip in to hiring one decent set of cabs, stands & powered mic mixer.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='DorsetBlue' timestamp='1433320039' post='2789966']
Okay, this is for a colleague of mine. His son (14) and friends are in a band and they have been picked to play on a minor stage at a small local festival in a 'Battle of the Bands' kind of format. They have been told that they will need to provide their own PA, as last year some of the bands claimed they were not very good because of the provided PA.
Now I have never used a PA and neither has my colleague (both Brass players historically) - so we are not sure what level of equipment this would entail. Does anyone have any experience of this kind of thing and could suggest what type of kit (possibly with examples) that they should be looking at?
[/quote]

sounds like the organisers are looking for the first act they can find who are able to bring their own PA and then coerce them into allowing it to be used for the whole event thus saving the organisers the cost of hiring a PA out of their own funding

[Phil Starr]

Well there's loads of ways to organise things but it doesn't look as if anyone has thought of one in this case. Wait and see if the OP gets back to us.