TheRev Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 On peizo pickups that is! After spending most of last night's set twiddling knobs to find a happy medium between an audible sound and feedback, I ordered a Krivo magnetic pickup as soon as I got home. I don't care if it doesn't sound like 'my bass only louder' I just want a consistent sound, even if it is a compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Feel you pain mate. Also worth noting that even if the PUP does sound like your bass only louder, and even if the soundguy gets it EQ'd right without feedback, and even if the PA is up to it, the majority of audiences won't hear any difference between piezo and mag. With DB, there's far more to what an audience hears than the quality of the tone anyway, a lot of it is what is played and how it is played as opposed to how it actually sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudi8 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 just tell the audience and the drummer to be quiet!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywillard Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Have you tried a Wilson K4? They aren't the cheapest, and it does mean drilling little holes into your bridge, but it's honestly the best move I ever made. Zero feedback even at huge volumes with a big band and loud drums etc, and I don't get that horrible 'electric' sound. My bass still sounds like my bass. (to some degree. Not that perfect acoustic tone, obviously, but close!) I've read some people not getting on with them, but I'd recommend them to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeEvans Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Maybe use both - the piezo for very small gigs, then for louder gigs add the magnetic for volume and feedback-free on-stage sound, with a bit of the more natural acoustic tone of the piezo dialled in to the mix out front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Do you play with the bow at all? I had a Kent Armstrong magnetic for a while, and it could sound good played pizz, but with the bow the response was really uneven and barely usable. If it wasn't for that, I'd have kept it for use in louder settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 [quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1434275929' post='2798169'] Maybe use both - the piezo for very small gigs, then for louder gigs add the magnetic for volume and feedback-free on-stage sound, with a bit of the more natural acoustic tone of the piezo dialled in to the mix out front? [/quote] Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1434268333' post='2798087'] the majority of audiences won't hear any difference between piezo and mag. With DB, there's far more to what an audience hears than the quality of the tone anyway, a lot of it is what is played and how it is played as opposed to how it actually sounds. [/quote] My thoughts exactly. The audience won't notice, the band probably won't notice and, as my preferred stage sound is pretty electric anyway, I might not even notice. 50% of the time I can get a great sound with my Bassmax and Plat Pro combination - nice full tone with enough bottom to fill out the sound and loud enough for me and the drummer. Those tend to be the gigs where we're using our own PA in a small venue. Then there the gigs where I can get loud enough, but only by cutting the bass and low mids, which makes our onstage sound a bit feeble. Finally there are the gigs - usually festivals - where we have a 15 min turnaround, minimal line check and off we go. In those gigs I can spend most of the set fighting the onstage sound rather than playing the songs. I've got a lot of festival gigs coming up, so I think it's time to go with the consistent reliable option. [quote name='dudi8' timestamp='1434270229' post='2798102'] just tell the audience and the drummer to be quiet!!! [/quote] The drummer is actually very considerate, the audience on the other hand are scrumpy swilling inbreds ( and I say that because I love them). If they were quiet there would be no point in doing the gig.... [quote name='henrywillard' timestamp='1434275660' post='2798160'] Have you tried a Wilson K4? They aren't the cheapest, and it does mean drilling little holes into your bridge, but it's honestly the best move I ever made. Zero feedback even at huge volumes with a big band and loud drums etc, and I don't get that horrible 'electric' sound. My bass still sounds like my bass. (to some degree. Not that perfect acoustic tone, obviously, but close!) I've read some people not getting on with them, but I'd recommend them to anyone. [/quote] To be honest, I'm not really too bothered about the 'my bass only louder' thing. My band can be pretty raucous so my preferred sound (that is, the sound that works best in the band mix) is pretty electric anyway. I've been in denial about it for the last year or so, but now I've admitted it and decided to go magnetic, I'm much happier about it. [quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1434275929' post='2798169'] Maybe use both - the piezo for very small gigs, then for louder gigs add the magnetic for volume and feedback-free on-stage sound, with a bit of the more natural acoustic tone of the piezo dialled in to the mix out front? [/quote] I'll certainly keep the Bassmax installed for those gigs where I'll know it'll work but I'm not sure I can be arsed to try mixing Mag and peizo. The whole point of buying the Krivo was to have a 'plug in and play' approach to festys and big stage gigs - less knob twiddling rather than more is the aim. I can plug the Krivo into whatever amp is provided without a preamp and just use the amp to set a sound I like and cane hear without having to worry about feedback. Hell, I can even get as much guitar in my monitor as I want. I could even have bass in my monitor if I want. I could even go straight into the PA and ust use the monitors without backline if I want. I'm getting all giddy just thinking about it. [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1434279153' post='2798207'] Do you play with the bow at all? I had a Kent Armstrong magnetic for a while, and it could sound good played pizz, but with the bow the response was really uneven and barely usable. If it wasn't for that, I'd have kept it for use in louder settings. [/quote] Nope - I save that sort of thing for the privacy of my own home. Edited June 14, 2015 by TheRev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 [quote name='henrywillard' timestamp='1434275660' post='2798160'] Have you tried a Wilson K4? They aren't the cheapest, and it does mean drilling little holes into your bridge, but it's honestly the best move I ever made. Zero feedback even at huge volumes with a big band and loud drums etc, and I don't get that horrible 'electric' sound. My bass still sounds like my bass. (to some degree. Not that perfect acoustic tone, obviously, but close!) I've read some people not getting on with them, but I'd recommend them to anyone. [/quote] Just checked out the Wilson and....EEK! That's only slightly less than my bass is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Ehrlund---> Ehrlund pre----> AI amp-----> front of house. So far, thanks to the tone shaping of the AI and the phase switch of the Ehrlund preamp, I have been able to play anything from pubs to jazz venues to open air festivals. A couple major festivals this summer will be the ultimate tests, fingers crossed. Mag no good for me due to guts. Good luck to you though and please keep us posted on the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmartin Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) What about mixing the magnetic PU with piezo one, and maybe try experimenting with phase changing etc? There's another Mag video on this page.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXt6BE2Qk9Q Edited June 14, 2015 by bobmartin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 [quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1434298143' post='2798426'] Ehrlund---> Ehrlund pre----> AI amp-----> front of house. So far, thanks to the tone shaping of the AI and the phase switch of the Ehrlund preamp, I have been able to play anything from pubs to jazz venues to open air festivals. A couple major festivals this summer will be the ultimate tests, fingers crossed. Mag no good for me due to guts. Good luck to you though and please keep us posted on the results. [/quote] Most of the time my Bassmax to Plat pro does the job, its the gigs without a proper soundcheck that are driving the change, I need something that will work with minimum faffage. The need for steel strings is a pain, I'm going to miss my Innovations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randythoades Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Hurrah.. another topic to stand on my soapbox about magnetic pickups! I tried mixing piezo and Kent Armstrong magnetic pickup. A bit too much of a faff for the benefit it gave. Now just mag pickup alone. If you are going to use mag pickup at all you need steel strings anyway and that changes how the piezo sounds. No one notices and it is a rich bass sound that doesn't feed back. And with some careful EQ (reducing bass a bit and upping the high mids), I can still get close (ish) to my natural bass sound. I can send you some sound bytes that I recorded on my phone of my bass unamplified then with the amp on. It is not perfect but not too bad, especially in the mix. And literally plug into my regular electric bass pedal board of pedal tuner and DI box, take the feed from DI into amp for stage volume, XLR to PA for FOH and leave it at that, all set, consistent output, minimal setup time, all the levels and EQ preset on my DI box (Dr. J Sparrow). Just adjust volume on amp / PA and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Hope you get on with the Krivo ok,I bought one from Goluhur music which turned out to be faulty I didn't like steel strings either. But I love my Blast Cult channel blaster 2. The preamp is built into the tail piece along with a low pass filter,mid control & slap pickup level control. along with the tension screw for the bridge pickup I don't have any feedback problems so far. it sounds great too. Edited June 15, 2015 by artisan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I'm having the same problem - but I use nylon/rockabilly strings so a mag pickup isn't a great bet.. I've been thinking about options like covering the f-holes to see if that reduces the resonance at all - anyone had any experience with such a thing? Good ways to do it without permanent damage to the bass, does it actually work, etc? xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Been there done it - bought a Moses Graphite Mag pickup a few years ago and haven't looked back, sounds good enough to me, the band and the audiences. I use presto strings which are fab too (RandyT will be able to tell you which ones as I recommeded them to him and keep forgetting what they are now ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randythoades Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Presto Nylon Ultralights. Feel very similar to Silverslaps, good thud, not too bright... as recommended by BobVBass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 [quote name='randythoades' timestamp='1434383499' post='2799085'] Presto Nylon Ultralights. Feel very similar to Silverslaps, good thud, not too bright... as recommended by BobVBass. [/quote] Am I understanding right that these have steel core ok for mag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1434383783' post='2799089'] Am I understanding right that these have steel core ok for mag? [/quote] Correct. They have their own character. Pleasant enough IMO. About as gut-like as a Ford is Ferrari-like. Still a very usable sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nugget Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Ive just ordered a mag pickup for exactly the same reason. Piezo when quiet gigs and Mag for loud fun crazy stuff, listening to Simon's recordings made up my mind! Just got to change out my gut G now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randythoades Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yea!! My first convert to the delights of mag... Good one Nugget. I can guarantee that after a few weeks of getting used to the mind set and tweaking some eq you will forget all about the piezo. The convenience will win through. And to add to Rabbie's comment, yes, the Presto's have a steel core but a nylon outer. They have a weird coating when you first put them on which feels a bit sticky and gave me a finger blister actually but after a week or so of playing it settles down and they feel very similar to the silver slaps I used before. I have used spiros too but the are really bright. Prestos have a nice dullness about them and you can get a nice rattle on the fingerboard if you do any slap (which I rarely do) but it does lend it an air of authenticity which comes across in the sound, especially compared to full steel strings. They are definitely not at all like gut or weedwacker type strings though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 [quote name='randythoades' timestamp='1434360611' post='2798827'] I tried mixing piezo and Kent Armstrong magnetic pickup. A bit too much of a faff for the benefit it gave. Now just mag pickup alone. ...... No one notices and it is a rich bass sound that doesn't feed back. And with some careful EQ (reducing bass a bit and upping the high mids), I can still get close (ish) to my natural bass sound. ........... And literally plug into my regular electric bass pedal board of pedal tuner and DI box, take the feed from DI into amp for stage volume, XLR to PA for FOH and leave it at that, all set, consistent output, minimal setup time, all the levels and EQ preset on my DI box (Dr. J Sparrow). Just adjust volume on amp / PA and done. [/quote] See - that's what I'm talking about! Too many of my gigs are line check and go! so I need minimum twiddling and maximum repeatability. Authentic double bass sound comes fairly low on the list of priorities. The audience are there to have fun, not to critically evaluate my double bass sound. I'd rather not go all steels, but I've been rocking a mixed Spiro weich/Super silvers combo for a while now, so I expect I'll cope. The Prestos sound interesting - I was looking at them and then decided I'd try Evah Pirazzi weich instead. Haven't ordered them yet but as they're synthetic core/metal wound they probably won't work with a mag picukp. Anywone succesfully used Evahs with a magnetic pickup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 IME The Evah weichs were stiffer than Spiro weichs, but that was on my bass. Might be different on yours. Have you thought about trying Spiro solos or even bumping a Stark or Mittel set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Each to their own. I hear the audience argument, but people have ears. And the performance is a million times better when the musician enjoys it. I hated hearing my piezo sounding like an EB, hence my switch to contact mics and preamps. If the money dictated I need to take super loud gigs I'd definitely go for Blast Cult again. Edited June 16, 2015 by Rabbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 [quote name='TPJ' timestamp='1434453478' post='2799657'] IME The Evah weichs were stiffer than Spiro weichs, but that was on my bass. Might be different on yours. Have you thought about trying Spiro solos or even bumping a Stark or Mittel set? [/quote] I'm Ok with the tension of the Spiro Weichs - it's the little skinny G and D that I don't like. Not so much the sound of theme but the feel under the right hand. [quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1434454105' post='2799668'] Each to their own. I hear the audience argument, but people have ears. And the performance is a million times better when the musician enjoys it. I hated hearing my piezo sounding like an EB, hence my switch to contact mics and preamps. If the money dictated I need to take super loud gigs I'd definitely go for Blast Cult again. [/quote] Agreed - but in my case I often can't enjoy what I'm playing because I have to make compromises with onstage volume or tone in order to avoid feedback. When I have enough time in a soundcheck (preamp settings, amp settings, where I stand in relation tot he monitors, where I place my cab etc), I can get a great sound with the Bassmax and the Plat Pro, but in situations where I don't have the luxury of time, I need something that will work and give me a useable sound without lots of optimisation - hence going magnetic. Anyway, pickup is on it's way and the proof will be in the gigging..... P.S. I'd love to try a Blast Cult, but funds/time are pressing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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