Too loud - it's becoming a problem

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1434460422' post='2799783']
Undue snark IMO, everybody in the band starts the gig slightly reserved and nervous, then a few songs in it's starting to flow, everyone gets into it and starts digging in and/or turning up to keep up with the increasingly excitable and invariably gurning drummer. Happened in every band I've ever been in to varying degrees, been regularly gigging for over 20 years.
[/quote]

+1. Sound check always has a sensible head on. It's natural to dig in a generally play much faster once the adrenaline kicks in. And of course, once the room is full of people your finely-honed stage sound is likely to need rethinking anyway.

[Conan]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1434459236' post='2799768']
How do you work that one out Sherlock?
[/quote]

Because the landlady said you were ok at soundcheck but too loud during the gig? Just a hunch...

If anything, I would expect volume levels to drop as a venue fills up with punters, so maybe you all turned up or started playing harder as the adrenaline kicked in? It's a common problem - but try to soundcheck at the same volume that you intend to play at

EDIT - beaten to it by CV!

Edited June 16, 2015 by Conan

[largo]

Could it be that by turning down you don't feel the bass "hitting" you anymore. No cure that I know of I'm afraid.

[wateroftyne]

FWIW, I spent many years in what was, to me, a micro-head wilderness (RH450 included).

I eventually realised: whenever I used a head with a lump of iron in it, I didn't have to turn it up so loud for it to feel 'right' in context.

Controversial (or bunkum) maybe, but I can only speak as I find.

[Jenny_Innie]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1434460422' post='2799783']
Undue snark IMO, everybody in the band starts the gig slightly reserved and nervous, then a few songs in it's starting to flow, everyone gets into it and starts digging in and/or turning up to keep up with the increasingly excitable and invariably gurning drummer. Happened in every band I've ever been in to varying degrees, been regularly gigging for over 20 years.
[/quote]

Many humble apologies.

..... although, to be fair, if you are familiar with the Sherlock Holmes books, you have followed his pattern of finding a logical reason by thinking laterally and making a conclusion.

Thank you. I'll factor that into my thinking.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Jenny_Innie

[Merton]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1434462218' post='2799812']
FWIW, I spent many years in what was, to me, a micro-head wilderness (RH450 included).

I eventually realised: whenever I used a head with a lump of iron in it, I didn't have to turn it up so loud for it to feel 'right' in context.

Controversial (or bunkum) maybe, but I can only speak as I find.
[/quote]

Apart from the GK MB Fusion I have now come to the same conclusion

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1434460037' post='2799777']
I find when we play, I hear everything clear as hell. As the night goes on, even though nothing is changed, I find everything becomes a wall of noise and I struggle to hear myself or the other instruments clearly. I realise our ears start to filter out certain frequencies and it's probably down to us being too loud at the back line.
[/quote]+1. Your ears will lose sensitivity as a protective reflex when exposed to constant high sound levels. This is why you seem to be softer at the end of a set, and why when you take a break and then go on again it seems louder than just before the break, as during the break hearing sensitivity is restored. One way to address the apparent loss in volume with time is to play louder, which only makes things worse. The smarter route is to either play at lower volume or use earplugs. Better that than eventually needing to use hearing aids.

[AntLockyer]

Do you wear ear plugs?

[scalpy]

As Bill says above, your ears adjust at high volume, to protect themselves, called temporary threshold shift. Which means you're too loud. No one wants to admit it, but if people are having to shout in each other's ears to place an order at the bar or decide to go for a fag then you've become too loud.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Haven't read all of this thread yet . Sorry if I echo others . Sound checks can vary somewhat . (Ie barman says 'turn it down now !' Then when crowd arrives , you keep it at the level that you started with). I think a 250 watt head or combo is enough personally . One cab could be enough. I've never had the luxury of playing with more than one. Then of course, each venue has different acoustics and shoulld vary considerably .
If you prefer a growly sound , an active bass would probably be best . If you want to make the whole place vibrate, get a telecaster bass ( single humbucker pickup) and an Aguilar head/ cab with no tweeter

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1434476489' post='2800009']
As Bill says above, your ears adjust at high volume, to protect themselves, called temporary threshold shift. Which means you're too loud. No one wants to admit it, but if people are having to shout in each other's ears to place an order at the bar or decide to go for a fag then you've become too loud.
[/quote]

Yes!

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1434404585' post='2799344']
I have a bit of a problem with volume. I play in three different bands and I keep being told that I'm too loud.

I generally play either an RH750 or an RH450 through a Barefaced cab or two.

Trouble is, I have to play so low down the volume dial, I don't any guts out of the amps.

I'm thinking of using a lower powered amp that I can whack up more - run it at 7 or 8 or so.

Does that make sense? What about a MiBass 220 or a BH250, Mag 220 etc

I'm generally talking small to medium pubs. Would one of the above cut it?
[/quote]

Most modern non-valve amps are specifically designed to give a consistent sound at all volume levels so I cant see that there is any mileage in going for a lower powered amp - its most likely going to sound the same, only quieter.

Most likely you just enjoy playing loud

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1434446930' post='2799588']
It's almost certainly the response of your ears changing at lower vs higher volumes
[/quote]

This.

[bassist_lewis]

Sometimes I get asked to turn down... nice idea but not practical for me

[alexclaber]

I just realised you have some more options with this - as I said before, if it's needing to drive the speakers hard enough to get the growl, use one cab instead of two. If one cab is still too loud then we're releasing a One10 soon but I don't think that'll be the case. If it's needing to drive the amp hard enough to get the dirt you want, then using fewer cabs and/or running a higher impedance load will make the amp work harder - so you could run a 12 ohm Two10 vs a 4 ohm Two10 and see which works better.

I do think it's probably your ears though and how the room acoustics are changing as the venue fills up and how the band is playing louder (thus masking more of your tone) in the gig vs the soundcheck. It's complicated! Enjoy the hunt for consistent tone!

[charic]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1434530383' post='2800383']
I just realised you have some more options with this - as I said before, if it's needing to drive the speakers hard enough to get the growl, use one cab instead of two. If one cab is still too loud then we're releasing a One10 soon but I don't think that'll be the case. If it's needing to drive the amp hard enough to get the dirt you want, then using fewer cabs and/or running a higher impedance load will make the amp work harder - so you could run a 12 ohm Two10 vs a 4 ohm Two10 and see which works better.

I do think it's probably your ears though and how the room acoustics are changing as the venue fills up and how the band is playing louder (thus masking more of your tone) in the gig vs the soundcheck. It's complicated! Enjoy the hunt for consistent tone!
[/quote]

Oh if only there was a solution where using a PA speaker type set up

[gary mac]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1434450680' post='2799621']


I went from kickass bad girl growl to dull beardy geography teacher in corduroys mush. Not very punk.


[/quote]

This is a sad day on Bass Chat. You have just insulted all the beardy, geography teaching bass chatters, particularly the corduroy wearers.

[No lust in Jazz]

It went "Not very Punk" when the nuances of stage tone and higher end bass amp and cab combinations met early in the thread.

[Musicman20]

I've just realised this is quite a good 'problem' to have.

[Jenny_Innie]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1434531826' post='2800412']
Oh if only there was a solution where using a PA speaker type set up
[/quote]

If only you had bothered to read one of my earlier posts!

[Lw.]

[quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1434533443' post='2800446']
It went "Not very Punk" when the nuances of stage tone and higher end bass amp and cab combinations met early in the thread.
[/quote]

Ha - we really do need a reputation system on this forum. You can have a pre-emptive +1 from me.

[charic]

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1434539975' post='2800528']
If only you had bothered to read one of my earlier posts!
[/quote]

I was actually referring to the new barefaced range of Active Cabinets which can also double as PA cabinets

[Jenny_Innie]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1434544794' post='2800604']
I was actually referring to the new barefaced range of Active Cabinets which can also double as PA cabinets
[/quote]

Aha. Well in that case, let me tell you something! My dad borrowed some of these from Alex for an anniversary function doo that he and his band played a few months back. I wasn't allowed to play, but I was there and helped the sound man ..... and the cheeky lot nicked my two Retro Two10s for the gig. It's sort of karma though, as I nick all of their stuff usually.

They played the first set with everything mic'd up via the two Barefaced PA things comprising:

[indent=1]AC30[/indent]
[indent=1]A Mesa M6 through my 2 x Retro Two10s[/indent]
[indent=1]Kick[/indent]
[indent=1]Snare[/indent]
[indent=1]Overhead drum mike[/indent]
[indent=1]3 x vocals[/indent]
[indent=1]Quite an impressive Yamaha keyboard array thing (only for a few songs).[/indent]

Then they played the second set, with just the vocals and the drums mics. No keys involved in 2nd set.

It was a medium sized hall packed with about 200 people.

They had the advantage of having to be able to set up all day AND they have their own sound tech riding the sliders throughout.

I have to say the PA speakers were fab. Like having two massive big home stereo speakers blasting out at you. No distortion, everything clear as a bell and nice and loud.

Mind you, I preferred the 2nd set sound. Not coming through the PA made the Tele and AC30 sound more like ..... well a Tele and an AC30 rather than just a well mixed guitar. Also, the Retros Two10s with the Mesa were to die for. Much better coming out by themselves. I couldn't really say that the sound was better balanced and dispersed in the first (all PA) set than it was in the first. The guys in the band said the sound mix (for them) was spot on for the first set - but the second it was more "chaotic" - but they thought the 2nd set was fun.

Can't see an application for my band though - we have a PA and we rarely have a sound man/woman - so would be too much for us to set up on our own.

[allighatt0r]

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1434540584' post='2800540']
Ha - we really do need a reputation system on this forum. You can have a pre-emptive +1 from me.
[/quote]

We did, for a short period. It was dreadful! It just encouraged huge amounts of mindless comments aimed to make people laugh, and took away from proper discussion.

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='allighatt0r' timestamp='1434551503' post='2800702']
We did, for a short period. It was dreadful! It just encouraged huge amounts of mindless comments aimed to make people laugh, and took away from proper discussion.
[/quote]

+1

S.P.