donslow Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi there, not sure this is the right place to post this so if not, please feel free to move I'll try and keep this short, in an attempt to learn to play the bass rather than just wing it (which has served me well thus far I may add) I got a copy of what duck done 1st edition, the one with notation but no tablature, long and short of it, I can't read notation and I'm having real difficulty in learning the songs from this otherwise seemingly fantastic book I'm not overly concerned about tabbing it, just knowing the notes would be enough for me to figure out the playing positions Is there anyone that would be willing to do any of the following 1. "Transcribe" this book for me and mark all the notes in it (I would happily send the book to you, pay for its safe return and obviously pay for your time) 2. Be able to tell me how I can work out the notes easily, quickly and accurately (whether it be via apps or programs or simply pen and paper) I have tried but seem to time and time again get it wrong (the whole notation and symbols and all that comes with it twists me up) which has led me to ask you fantastic people for help Is there anyone willing to help a moron out? Many thanks in advance guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booooooom Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I don't read notation either but a simple chart like this should help: http://www.teoria.com/res/images/reference/bass-clef-notes.gif It shows the note values (lowest at the bottom) so shouldn't take long to work out notes (the sequence repeats above and below...). Like you say, once you know the notes you'll be able to decide where on the neck you play it. If a line is marked with a '#' (sharp) or 'b' (flat - ok it's not a 'b' but it looks like one) then the note is one fret higher or lower. I'm sure someone else will be along soon to explain/steer you better than I... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1434582698' post='2801027']... 2. Be able to tell me how I can work out the notes easily, quickly and accurately (whether it be via apps or programs or simply pen and paper)... [/quote] Nothing 'moronic' about your request, but I doubt that 'transcribing' your whole book would help you, really. The 2nd edition does have tab, so would be an option, maybe..? Better still, imo, would be to learn the reading of the bass clef yourself. Very easy, if taken in smell steps. Try this video for starters..? ... [media]http://youtu.be/PMk-q5LCiAs[/media] The same fellow has more videos, including how to read 'accidentals' (sharps and flats, which aren't mentioned in the first, starter, one...). Have a look, then get back here with more questions..? I could 'transcribe' your book, but I don't see the difference between having 'A' written beside a dot and reading it directly as an 'A'. It's only a question of slow, diligent practise. This site goes through the basics... [url="http://www.studybass.com/"]StudyBass.com ...[/url] ... and has downloadable resources such as a 'notes on the fretboard' guide... [url="http://www.studybass.com/pdf/bass-clef-notes-fretboard.pdf"]Notes on the Fretboard ...[/url] ... Can't hurt to have a look, perhaps..? Hope this helps... Edited June 18, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks for that boooooom (sp) I have seen charts like that which I've tried using, it seems simple enough so I'm not sure why I keep getting it so drastically wrong / getting so confused with it all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1434585085' post='2801036'] Nothing 'moronic' about your request, but I doubt that 'transcribing' your whole book would help you, really. The 2nd edition does have tab, so would be an option, maybe..? Better still, imo, would be to learn the reading of the bass clef yourself. Very easy, if taken in smell steps. Try this video for starters..? ... http://youtu.be/PMk-q5LCiAs The same fellow has more videos, including how to read 'accidentals' (sharps and flats, which aren't mentioned in the first, starter, one...). Have a look, then get back here with more questions..? I could 'transcribe your book, but I don't see the difference between having 'A' written beside a dot and reading it directly as an 'A'. It's only a question of slow, diligent practise. Hope this helps... [/quote] Thank you for the video and advice, will have a look at it for sure, I guess a lot of my problem is I have the attention span of a stupid gnat and get too eager / impatient to do something like this that I end up in circles, there's a little part of me that's thinking if I had "a" etc written next to the note itself, especially for a myriad of songs/keys/notes etc it might help me better understand how to do it myself next time, does that make sense?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1434585389' post='2801038']...does that make sense?! [/quote] Indeed it does, and you are far from being the first or only 'gnat' with this same feeling..! The key word I used earlier was 'diligence'. I have been looking for years to find a source of the other indispensable element, namely 'patience', which is a prerequisite to all learning, ime, but with little success. 'Just do it' is the answer to that. Yes, in the very, very short term it will help to have 'A' written alongside, but it's a trap. I don't suppose you remember exactly how you first learned to read text. Did your teacher (or mother..?) have to write 'A' beside every 'A'..? I think not. You just learned, slowly, from 'A is for Apple', through Janet and John (John sees the dog. Janet sees the dog. The dog is big...'), then Treasure Island and Swallows and Amazons. Reading is learnt in that way, over a few years. Reading music is no different; one starts with the simple reading of a few notes, identifying them on the fretboard, then some simple tunes (Donald Dunn is fine for that...), then, progressively, as far as one wishes, right up to Shostakovich and more if affinity..! Take the first halting steps. Take 'em slowly. It's the fastest way of learning to run. 'Slow' is the new 'fast'. Trust me. Now go and do it; report back when you've taken that first step. Do it now. Edited June 18, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1434586435' post='2801043'] Indeed it does, and you are far from being the first or only 'gnat' with this same feeling..! The key word I used earlier was 'diligence'. I have been looking for years to find a source of the other indispensable element, namely 'patience', which is a prerequisite to all learning, ime, but with little success. 'Just do it' is the answer to that. Yes, in the very, very short term it will help to have 'A' written alongside, but it's a trap. I don't suppose you remember exactly how you first learned to read text. Did your teacher (or mother..?) have to write 'A' beside every 'A'..? I think not. You just learned, slowly, from 'A is for Apple', through Janet and John (John sees the dog. Janet sees the dog. The dog is big...'), then Treasure Island and Swallows and Amazons. Reading is learnt in that way, over a few years. Reading music is no different; one starts with the simple reading of a few notes, identifying them on the fretboard, then some simple tunes (Donald Dunn is fine for that...), then, progressively, as far as one wishes, right up to Shostakovich and more if affinity..! Take the first halting steps. Take 'em slowly. It's the fastest way of learning to run. 'Slow' is the new 'fast'. Trust me. Now go and do it; report back when you've taken that first step. Do it now. [/quote] Golly gosh! Thank you ever so much for your time and Fantastic advice, I guess your right, gonna have another stab at it using the chart that booooom posted earlier and try and find my restraint to throw books out of the window hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Is it safe to assume, ignore ALL lines/squiggles etc etc and JUST concentrate on the dots and where they are?! Any tips on specific technique marks ie slides/hammer ons or similar that I should look out for?! Many thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1434588033' post='2801049'] Golly gosh! Thank you ever so much for your time and Fantastic advice, I guess your right, gonna have another stab at it using the chart that booooom posted earlier and try and find my restraint to throw books out of the window hahaha [/quote] Great stuff; that's the spirit (although I hope you don't live on the fourth floor, as it's a long walk down to pick 'em up again..!). Just a word concerning the chart... It's correct, but doesn't take into account accidentals (sharps and flats...). For instance, here's an extract from Dunn... The 'flat' sign indicated in [color=#800080][b]violet[/b][/color] tells us that all 'B' notes are to one played 'flat' a semitone, or one fret, lower...). All notes read on that line (so the note 'B'...) should be played flat. This also applies, however, to [i]all [/i]the 'B' notes, including those in the space above the stave, circled in [color=#ff0000][b]red[/b][/color]. Those, too, are 'B' notes, and are, also, to be played 'flat'. Just thought I'd mention it, before you start chucking things around. I might get hurt..! Edited June 18, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1434589409' post='2801054'] Is it safe to assume, ignore ALL lines/squiggles etc etc and JUST concentrate on the dots and where they are?! Any tips on specific technique marks ie slides/hammer ons or similar that I should look out for?! Many thanks again [/quote] I'd say that, as a general rule, anything with such lines and/or squiggles is too advanced for you right now. This is where the patience is required. Yes, you can ignore all that stuff and simply read the notes (sing their name out loud in pitch, then find and play 'em on the bass, one by one...), but that will only help you with part of the reading experience. It won't sound like Donald Dunn, that's for sure..! It would be better, for a few days at least, to put Mr. Dunn aside for now and just read, sing out and play simple notes from a basic stave. Before running, one walks. Before walking, one toddles. Before toddling, one crawls. It won't take long, but doing this the 'slow' way will, I assure you, have you reading those squiggles very soon. Depending on the time you can consecrate, I'd say about a week or so. Worth the effort..? Surely..? I'll see if I can dig out a simple bass clef reading exercise for you; there's lots out there, though. Edit: Here's one to get you started... [attachment=194565:Bass_Clef_Read.pdf] (Download and save as 'Bass Clef Read.pdf...) No sharps or flats, just read them, sing them and play them. Take your time, don't worry at first about tempo. I don't recommend writing the name first, but some might find it helps. Edited June 18, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Wow! Thank you again, although my brain has imploded and f***ed off already How do I know that (using your example) the note to be played flat is B? I'm assuming because of the key its in somehow?! How do I know other notes aren't meant to be flat or sharp?! Taking she caught the Katy for another example, watching videos on oochoob there's slides from one note to the next, how do I tell these little intricacies from notation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) You're doing it again, Dan. Slow down, start crawling. Calm down; I'll answer as best I can, but those questions are for next week, not this evening. [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]H[/font][/color][color=#800080][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]ow do I know that (using your example) the note to be played flat is B?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The 'flat' sign, circled in [/font][/color][color=#800080][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][b]violet[/b][/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif], is placed o[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]n the line of the stave that corresponds to the note 'B'.[/font][/color] [color=#800080][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I'm assuming because of the key its in somehow?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]We can ignore 'keys' for now; they're important, but won't help you this evening to understand. First thin[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]gs first. Yes, we're in the key of F major or D minor, but all we need to know from reading the stave is that we flatten all 'B's unless indicated otherwise. Keys will come, but are not needed in order to read the notes on the stave.[/font][/color] [color=#800080][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]How do I know other notes aren't meant to be flat or sharp?![/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The information on the stave is to help us. If there are other notes to sharpen or flatten, the stave will tell us. Just read the notes. If it's indicated sharp, play the note sharp. If it's marked as a flat, play it flat. It's no harder than that, reading. Understanding music theory, harmony and all that are fine, too, and will come, but are not necessary for reading music, certainly right at the start. Just read the notes.[/font][/color] [color=#800080][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Taking she caught the Katy for another example, watching videos on oochoob there's slides from one note to the next, how do I tell these little intricacies from notation?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I can't answer this right away, as I don't have the score, and don't know the piece. All I can say is that, in general, if there's a slide or hammer-on involved (or any other effects...), they will be notes in the score. How..? The list is long of all the possible detail notations one could encounter, but here's how Guitar Pro shows it...[/font][/color] The first is a slide up from open 'D' to 'E', the second a 'pull-off' from 'F' to 'E'. Just a dumb example, there's more, but one has to have the first pieces in place before going in these details. I'll see if I can find a source for a bucket of patience, just the same; if not for you, at least for myself. Edited June 18, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1434582698' post='2801027'] in an attempt to learn to play the bass rather than just wing it (which has served me well thus far I may add) I got a copy of what duck done 1st edition[/quote] From the above, I am assuming that you are comparatively new to playing the bass. My apologies if this is incorrect. There is no doubt that the "Duck Dunne" book is very good. However, IMO it is not the ideal place to start. You need to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. It seems to me that you seem to be starting your learning journey..in the middle. I would suggest that you incorporate a little of various things into your practice session. Learning music notation can be part of this. The "Study Bass" site has already been mentioned. It is one of the best. Go to the lessons guide and start at the beginning. You can also learn what "Duck done" by [u]listening[/u] to him. This is great for developing your ear. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=duck+dunn+bass For learning to read notation I would recommend this : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Simplified-Sight-Reading-Bass-Josquin-Pres/dp/0793565189 Some practical suggestions : Spend no longer than an hour at a time practicing. Take a break and come back to it if you wish. Little and often is the key.....as well as having patience and taking your time. Best of luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Duck Dunn is quite advanced reading. I'd skip for now and find another book which is aimed at more intermediary levelled players. Either way, don't give up! Reading is a very valuable skill to have! Just try not to run before you can walk and don't get bogged down in theory. You don't need to know how music works in order to read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hi guys, sorry, should've mentioned before, I'm a guitar player of 20 years and a bass player of about 6 I know how to play, I know my scales and such it's just I picked this book up as it's more the kind of music I'm playing with my newest band and to get a feel for how others play this style, it's just this notation stuff, thankfully Ive never needed it, until now Sorry for any confusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 All cows eat grass, dude, all cows eat grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booooooom Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1434641261' post='2801477'] All cows eat grass, dude, all cows eat grass. [/quote] And Good Boys Deserve F-A... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1434640885' post='2801473'] Hi guys, sorry, should've mentioned before, I'm a guitar player of 20 years and a bass player of about 6 I know how to play, I know my scales and such it's just I picked this book up as it's more the kind of music I'm playing with my newest band and to get a feel for how others play this style, it's just this notation stuff, thankfully Ive never needed it, until now Sorry for any confusion [/quote] In which case I'd recommend learning by ear to get the shapes and rhythms for that kind of playing. Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks for all the advice so far gents, tried "transcribing" one of the simpler songs from this book today and after following some very well thought out advice, I think I only went and got the notes right Just followed the dots, every other mark, couldn't tell you what they mean but I got one sorted, so once again, thank you for any helpful advice given, it's gonna take me a year to work through the rest of the book hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1434648540' post='2801542']...it's gonna take me a year to work through the rest of the book hahaha [/quote] Let me share with you, then, my usual piece of encouragement; it applies to reading music and so much more in life... "It's the first forty years that are the hardest, after which things tend to get (slightly...) easier." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1434652376' post='2801578'] Let me share with you, then, my usual piece of encouragement; it applies to reading music and so much more in life... "It's the first forty years that are the hardest, after which things tend to get (slightly...) easier." [/quote] Cheers dude, your advice and encouragement has been invaluable, really do appreciate it, let me know where you live and when I do throw the books out the window, I'll aim for your doorstep hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 [quote name='donslow' timestamp='1434657362' post='2801647'] Cheers dude, your advice and encouragement has been invaluable, really do appreciate it, let me know where you live and when I do throw the books out the window, I'll aim for your doorstep hahaha [/quote] I'll brace myself against Dan's onslaught, then, although you'll be needing a mighty long arm..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1434647262' post='2801521'] In which case I'd recommend learning by ear to get the shapes and rhythms for that kind of playing. [/quote] +100. OP, nothing to stop you doing the above [u]and[/u] at the same time, learning to read at your own pace. In your initial post you stated that you.. "wanted to learn the bass, rather than just winging it.." One of the best ways to do this is to develop your ear by listening to songs and trying to play along. Learning to read is also a great asset, but as I mentioned earlier, a constructive practice session consists of a [u]LOT[/u] of things, practiced regularly with small amounts of time given to each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donslow Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Six songs down and I'm already adding more flamboyancey to my own bass lines, Why the hell didn't I find it this easy before now?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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