Any CNC router recommendations?

[Byo]

Hi y'all,

Question oriented more to luthiers and amateur builders.

I am currently attending Guitar Building evening classes at the London Metropolitan University but they focus only on hand made acoustics, which I am really enjoying and has become an amazing learning experience.
They do have an industrial CNC machine and I have seen several Telecaster bodies and builds in the workshops as it is part of their BSc degree but as mentioned above, it is all hand made guitars focused and hardly any power tools are used (nice).

I would like to hear from your experiences with CNC machines and what would you suggest.
To give you a context, I would like to start working mostly on classic Fender shapes and move on from there.

Cheers,
Byron.

[Byo]

Nobody?

[yorks5stringer]

I've used plywood /plexi templates and a handheld plunge /table router in the past. Not as quick as CNC but a damn sight cheaper!

I worked with a Luthier whose stock in trade was hand built acoustics and there is a certain satisfaction in building "the box" from flat pieces of wood that have been steamed and shaped.

Edited June 22, 2015 by yorks5stringer

[Matt P]

I think that most of the custom builders just use the handheld router and template method, CNC machinery is so expensive that you have to either be building huge numbers of instruments or charging incredibly high prices to make the machine pay for itself.

unless you fancy building the CNC machine yourself? [url="https://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx"]https://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx[/url]

Matt

[Kiwi]

In addition to the cost, there's a significant upfront investment of time and labour in getting CNC to run efficiently - even more so for a first timer on a learning curve. Using a router is much more cost effective for low volume production (<20 instruments a month). Having said that, the bloke who makes Martin Taylors jazz archtops uses a CNC for making the arched top - a risky operation which requires a lot of focus and time to get right.

[FlatEric]

The thing with CNC, is you need to understand it to get it to work for you.

To start with, on a 2D machine, you have to be inventive, to get the shapes you are looking for.
You have to be skilled in CAD, as the machine won't correct your mistakes - so the drawings are
really important.
The drawings then need to be converted into commands - G Codes - you need to tell it what cutter it is,
for offset and you need to hold the material firmly, so it doesn't wander - etc, etc.

Getting to make the first one, is the hard part.

The beauty of CNC is. . . . . . . when you have made one, you can make THOUSANDS all the same.

The first company to use CNC to make guitars. . . . . . Peavey!

If you do follow this route, I would be interested to see the results.

[6v6]

I've often wondered about this myself, but quickly realized that (as others have mentioned) the up front effort in both cost of machinery and investment in software knowledge is relatively prohibitive for an occasional builder.

To put it in to context, my mate runs a timber manufacturing company, and their 3 axis CNC system cost as much as our house! I'm sure there are cheaper ways to get started, but I'm not aware of many with capacity to make full size guitars, unless you're prepared to invest even more time and make or modify something (used milling machine conversion or similar).

It's probably also worth mentioning that all those "classic Fender shapes" were created on pin routers with templates, e.g something you can easily replicate with a decent router, template cutter and maybe a router table and a few jigs for the neck.

[Count Bassy]

Depends what you call expensive. In the current climate second hand CNC machine tools can be had for quite small amounts, little more than scrap value, and assuming that you only want one body or neck on the machine at a time then you are looking at a fairly small a machine. (1000 x 600 x 100 working envelope). However this is likely to have an old NC (probably requiring more programming effort) and also a three phase supply.

If you used the CNC for the roughing, and using a ball end cutter, and finished by hand, then you could get almost everything you wanted from a three axis machine.

The beauty of the NC is that you can develop the prototype and the part programs using cheap lumps of pine, and only commit to the good/expensive stuff once you know that its all going to fit.

[yorks5stringer]

I know a well regarded Luthier who had a CNC machine, which he was using to make wooden place mats!
However it was not his machine and he was lent it for that specific job.

[Byo]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

I know CNC routers are very expensive and I cannot justify the price of one.

A pin router with a template, like the old Fender´s may be a possible alternative.
I am going to do further research as I am very interested.

Keep the comments coming!

[6v6]

[quote name='Byo' timestamp='1435111257' post='2805609']
A pin router with a template, like the old Fender´s may be a possible alternative.
I am going to do further research as I am very interested.
[/quote]

Note you don't really need a dedicated pin router, you can just as easily use a generic handheld router with a template/guided-profile cutter bit in it.

I got a 1200w 1/2" router from Aldi for £25 with a set of kitchen fitter bits which would do the job with reasonable accuracy - if I was regularly building guitars (I'm not, only a few amp/head cabs) I'd probably get a better quality one and make or buy a router table for more control.

If you haven't already check out [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/218644-time-lapse-workshop-series/"]skelf's timelapse workshop series[/url] - this was an eye-opener to me, shows how ACG's are all made with a handheld router and templates, no fancy machinery in sight!

With some care the same process could easily be replicated at home, although of course the experience and skill demonstrated in that series is unquestionable!

[Matt P]

Have you got a makerspace/hackerspace/community workshop nearby? they might have some CNC machinery that you could use, probably not for machining bodies but making templates should be possible.

Matt

[Count Bassy]

Here's one for a grand. Not sure if this one has a full Z axis though, and it needs three phase. The Bosch CC100 was obsolete around 20 years ago, but was reasonably competent in it's time.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Used-CNC-Router-Machine-Wood-Timber-Metal-Plastic-Kitchen-Door-Manufacture-/301660139944?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463c5871a8

or this for 6 grand, single phase, PC front end, and probably more home friendly.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Refurbished-Custom-3-Axis-BALLSCREW-CNC-Machine-Router-Slate-Engraving-Router-/221698962019?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item339e49b263

[DarkHeart]

Im a CNC machinist and started my machining life on a router ooooh all the way back in '96 making kitchen units and solid wood doors. Ive progressed to a lathe now, although there are times now i wish i was back wood machining.