Dood Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I have one of these lil chaps sat on my desk right now. I'll report back in a day or so once I've given it a whirl, but so far the specifications look good - and it is tiny! The company are based in Cambridge too which is great to see. http://www.smoothhound-innovations.com 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Initial thoughts are that it is well made, and presented well. It would certainly go well with any kit in which you are using to travel light and there's quite a lot of functionality but in for configuring it - though the system comes ' set up' and ready to go straight out of the box. Can't wait to plug it in actually! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Any lag? What about battery life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 I've not had a chance to plug it in yet as the weekend has been full of festivities but the specs are on the product listing suggesting a very capable battery life and low latency. Watch this space! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'm not a fan of the bug type transmitters but I like this one as you can use it like a traditional body pack. I'd be really interested in your view Dood as I'm in the market for one to replace my ageing sennheiser... steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm hoping to get it hooked up later on this evening! - I too like the way that it can be mounted on a strap too Muppet. I have to say that the hinge for the 1/4" jack plug on this one looks pretty strong as it is all metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Spec page says 8ms latency. That's quite a lot compared to other products. Line 6 G30 is about 4ms and the new G70 and G75 is only 1.5ms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Specs say this one will go down to 5ms which compares well with the G30 given they're at the same price point. The G75 costs three times as much so I'd expect better performance and features from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Latency figures not good - run this into a digital desk (which has its own latency) with in ears and you'll soon be having problems. 10ms is given as the lowest acceptable delay for use and having this wireless take up to 8ms...? Hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1435043667' post='2804811'] Specs say this one will go down to 5ms [/quote] Doesn't look good for guys that want to use a lot of 2.4Ghz gear... But having said all this, for the average weekend warrior, this is going to be just fine. Edited June 23, 2015 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Do you mean the highest possible delay? 10ms seems a bit short - less than half a wavelength of an open B. I can understand it might be a problem with a higher frequency things or drums, but would it really be noticeable on a bass? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1434989844' post='2804473'] Spec page says 8ms latency. That's quite a lot compared to other products. Line 6 G30 is about 4ms and the new G70 and G75 is only 1.5ms. [/quote] I'd be keen to test both verses a standard 20ft cable. I wonder if Line 6 are being a bit keen and SmoothHound conservative? Or maybe it's the other way round! I do find the 1.5ms thing a bit hard to believe though knowing the sort of latency you get through the A/D- D/A conversion of even a simple effect pedal. Very cool if it is true though. I can do a pretty 'dirty' test of latency I think but I don't have any line 6 units to run as a comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1435088557' post='2805400'] Do you mean the highest possible delay? 10ms seems a bit short - less than half a wavelength of an open B. I can understand it might be a problem with a higher frequency things or drums, but would it really be noticeable on a bass? [/quote] Remember when you are hearing a low B, you are hearing the harmonic content also, not just the fundamental "B". Anything above 10ms in a close monitoring situation is a nightmare... Your striking of the string will be noticeably out with the rest of the music. For maximum laughs, you should try singing against a >10ms delay when you have got a feed direct into your ears. Edited June 23, 2015 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1435090453' post='2805433'] Remember when you are hearing a low B, you are hearing the harmonic content also, not just the fundamental "B". Anything above 10ms in a close monitoring situation is a nightmare... Your striking of the string will be noticeably out with the rest of the music. For maximum laughs, you should try singing against a >10ms delay when you have got a feed direct into your ears. [/quote] If I am recording on a laggy system (thankfully it hasn't happened recently) it is possible to notice when the latency is higher than optimum settings. I can't really explain it and it's something you have to sort of test out, but even before your ear notices the sound delay, playing the bass just feels different. Less responsive. The only way I can describe it is to liken it to going from my bass set up to a budget instrument that has uneven frets, bad neck relief or unbalanced action. Just feels like you're fighting it as the sound comes back through to you via isolating cans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Why don't any of the digital wireless manufacturers offer a digital output on the receiver unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Wow that looks very similar to the Stageclix but at a fraction of the price! If the latency isn't noticeable in a live setting this could be very good value! Does it have multiple frequencies you can switch between if you get interference from other wireless devices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1435090453' post='2805433'] For maximum laughs, you should try singing against a >10ms delay when you have got a feed direct into your ears. [/quote] There are no laughs when I am singing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1435092933' post='2805472'] Why don't any of the digital wireless manufacturers offer a digital output on the receiver unit? [/quote] There is - usually Dante - but when you think think what these devices are being used for, e.g. plugging into an amp, there really aren't too many amps with digital inputs. I think the devices which output Dante are generally the units which are used for microphones, so it makes perfect sense to keep that particular signal in the digital domain from the word go. And if you are going to record into a computer, you may as well go from bass->cable->interface anyway. Edited June 24, 2015 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 [quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1435093314' post='2805477'] Wow that looks very similar to the Stageclix but at a fraction of the price! If the latency isn't noticeable in a live setting this could be very good value! Does it have multiple frequencies you can switch between if you get interference from other wireless devices? [/quote] It does switch between frequencies. Still reckon this is the one to go for in this price range - http://www.thomann.de/gb/sony_dwz_b30gb_guitar_set.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 [quote name='dood' timestamp='1435090254' post='2805426'] I'd be keen to test both verses a standard 20ft cable. I wonder if Line 6 are being a bit keen and SmoothHound conservative? Or maybe it's the other way round! I do find the 1.5ms thing a bit hard to believe though knowing the sort of latency you get through the A/D- D/A conversion of even a simple effect pedal. Very cool if it is true though. I can do a pretty 'dirty' test of latency I think but I don't have any line 6 units to run as a comparison. [/quote] The new Line 6 kit is very new - the early reviews were awful with drop outs - but the firmware was knackered and it's been fixed and the newer reviews are very good. That being said - the new Stageclix unit operates in the 5.8GHz band for (apparently) less interference from routers etc. I love the idea of the Stageclix concept with a rechargeable transmitter that plugs into the receiver - but I also have experience with a 5.8GHz wifi router and it is sh*t. I'm in the market for a wireless, but they are so difficult to A/B properly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1435135892' post='2805730'] The new Line 6 kit is very new - the early reviews were awful with drop outs - but the firmware was knackered and it's been fixed and the newer reviews are very good. That being said - the new Stageclix unit operates in the 5.8GHz band for (apparently) less interference from routers etc. I love the idea of the Stageclix concept with a rechargeable transmitter that plugs into the receiver - but I also have experience with a 5.8GHz wifi router and it is sh*t. I'm in the market for a wireless, but they are so difficult to A/B properly! [/quote] Line6 kit remains the benchmark for this sector - I remember issues of the drop outs and indeed, the firmware seems to have fixed that. The 5ghz thing is a bit misleading - it's not that it's particularly better or worse than 2.4ghz, it's just that at the moment, there are less people running 5ghz routers. This is fast changing... and in some cases becoming worse because a lot of routes are putting out both 2.4ghz and 5ghz access points. 5ghz allows for greater transfer speed - but this isn't really an issue for us... the A/D conversion is the bottleneck, not the wireless transmission. The main real world difference in wireless point of view for us (where power transmission is comparable), is that 5ghz has a lesser range and is not as good at penetrating through obstacles, there is more change that a direct line of sight will be required to get the most out of your 5ghz connection. It depends what you want it to do... if you are standing right next to your amp, it shouldn't be a problem. Anything larger, the chances are you are playing bigger stages... and with bigger stages you'd probably be out of the prosumer products anyway. If you like the onboard recharging function, add the Shure GLXD to your list of stuff to try out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Thank you that's very helpful. I'm playing for the local music trust at the moment and for rehearsals etc there is no need for wireless - but when concert time arrives there are all manner of ensembles and chairs and timpani and pianos and props getting wheeled on and off and often I'm on a different part of the stage per ensemble. The stage hands are getting annoyed with cables being in the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothHoundChris Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hello, Chris from Smooth Hound Innovations here. Happy to answer questions you might have about the Classic wireless system. [quote name='dood' timestamp='1435090254' post='2805426'] I'd be keen to test both verses a standard 20ft cable. I wonder if Line 6 are being a bit keen and SmoothHound conservative? [/quote] Well, the exact latency is 7.68ms so 8ms is a [i]little[/i] bit conservative! A quick point about latency, sound travels in air at around 1 foot per millisecond so adding 8ms latency is the same as standing 8 feet farther away from your amplifier. Whether you're playing bass or lead doesn't really make any difference, it's all about the attack. I appreciate the latency figure is not the lowest around and as EBS freak says, if you need to add a lot of [i]additional[/i] latency (eg chain a bunch of digital effects and monitor through a digital desk) you could get to the point that it is noticeable. All the comments we've had so far on latency though have been positive. People keep saying things like "No latency" which isn't strictly true! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothHoundChris Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 [quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1435093314' post='2805477'] Does it have multiple frequencies you can switch between if you get interference from other wireless devices? [/quote] To elaborate on EBS freak's answer - but not quote his recommendation - the Classic changes channels automatically to avoid interfering systems whether wifi or other 2.4 GHz wireless. The 2.4 GHz band has 79 x 1MHz channels available. Each Classic system transmits on four channels whilst testing four more for backup. If it sees high interference on any of those eight channels, it'll swap it out for a new one. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 You can't get much better than that ey! Straight from SmoothHound! Brilliant! Great to see you on here Chris! - I'm pleased to say that I should have some time today to finally plug the classic in for a good work out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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