Jazz on electric bass... Saint or Sinner?

[Leonard Smalls]

Talking of Ron, here's one my favourites by him - just love the intonation of those BC Rich Warlock basses:

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lgrQnX9fHg[/MEDIA]

[bassace]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1437541900' post='2826835']
Even Ron Carter played electric for about a fortnight in the 1960s.
[/quote]

At the end of the sixties it seemed you couldn't give a double bass away, such was the ubiquity of the bass guitar. I remember some article hailing the BG as the most significant new instrument in jazz for the past three decades. At that time my DB fell apart and I went over to BG and it would be fifteen years before I had a DB again. Thing was, I'd started on DB and due to my early influences - notably the blessed Sam Jones - I played in front of the beat. As the BG spoke a lot quicker I found myself playing very much in front of the beat. When I went back to double bass I remember a muso saying to me, words to the effect, ' I didn't realise you were a good player because on BG we didn't think you were too hot'.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1437556339' post='2826942']
At the end of the sixties it seemed you couldn't give a double bass away, such was the ubiquity of the bass guitar. I remember some article hailing the BG as the most significant new instrument in jazz for the past three decades. At that time my DB fell apart and I went over to BG and it would be fifteen years before I had a DB again. Thing was, I'd started on DB and due to my early influences - notably the blessed Sam Jones - I played in front of the beat. As the BG spoke a lot quicker I found myself playing very much in front of the beat. When I went back to double bass I remember a muso saying to me, words to the effect, ' I didn't realise you were a good player because on BG we didn't think you were too hot'.
[/quote]

An interesting story. I think there is a lot of this that comes out of the Marsalis neo-classicist era. Marsalis LPs always carried the tag 'this LP was recorded without the dreaded bass direct'. The purist message was all but universal during that time and, since that was the ethos that added impetus to the Jazz scene that existed immediately followed that era, it has never really gone away.

Having said that, there is the simple fact that the doulbe bass and electric bass sit in radically different places in the sonic mix and, for most Jazz fans (and Jazz musicians are all Jazz fans), the double bass sounds better in terms of it sitting at the bottom of the ensemble sound and holdin it together. The electric sits higher up and further forward and creates what is essentially a completely different effect and which also leaves a gap at the bottom.

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1437570354' post='2827132']

Having said that, there is the simple fact that the doulbe bass and electric bass sit in radically different places in the sonic mix and, for most Jazz fans (and Jazz musicians are all Jazz fans), the double bass sounds better in terms of it sitting at the bottom of the ensemble sound and holdin it together. The electric sits higher up and further forward and creates what is essentially a completely different effect and which also leaves a gap at the bottom.
[/quote]

You can place an electric bass anywhere in the mix with either pedals or eq!
The simple fact is that double and electric bass sound different; they have a different tone, attack, intonation, overtones etc, but both have a place in jazz, though for those who believe that jazz ended in 1963 electric is heresy!
Funnily enough I was taking a couple of beer barrels back to our local pub today and was introduced to a jazz muso type - though it wasn't stated what he actually did.
Somehow the conversation got onto Jaco Pastorius - this chap would not accept that he was in any sort of jazz band, nor that he was a bassist of any sort - "he's a rhythm guitarist" he asserted!
For me, jazz is about innovation and skill - in other words it's alive, not something that stopped 50-odd years ago - though that's not to denigrate past glories. They did their thing - it was cool. Now new folks do their thing and it's cool as well.
Talking of which, here's Hiromi with my favourite guitarist (electric!!!!)

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXsuPkyFQuQ[/MEDIA]

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1437570354' post='2827132']
An interesting story. I think there is a lot of this that comes out of the Marsalis neo-classicist era. Marsalis LPs always carried the tag 'this LP was recorded without the dreaded bass direct'. The purist message was all but universal during that time and, since that was the ethos that added impetus to the Jazz scene that existed immediately followed that era, it has never really gone away.
[/quote]

I'm far from a purist, but I can sort of see where Marsalis was coming from with his backlash against that DI double bass sound. Ron Carter from about the mid 70s onwards was a particularly egregious example IMO - great playing but it's just about as far from the acoustic sound of a double bass as any electric bass could be, and that nasal, plasticky tone really grates. Live is a different matter, but I don't understand how that ever became a fashionable sound to record with.