Florence's tuning

[lurksalot]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1435681517' post='2811408']
Out of curiosity I've just compared 3 live performances of 'Ship To Wreck' (Glasto, Later with Jools, GMA) with the original studio version on youtube and she sounds like she's singing them all the same to me, ie what was recorded is pretty much what you get live (though the mixes naturally differ a bit). Obviously just me then...as I wrote earlier I'm not that fussed about her one way or the other, strong voice though as Bassassin pointed out.
[/quote]
In all honesty I heard ship to wreck (which I like) on radio 2 at lunchtime , and commented that something sounded off , and the youngster said it was the live glasto recording , it was definitely different , maybe not massively, but definitely different to the studio version

[sharkboy]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1435654471' post='2810924']
There's a few grumpy old men on this thread aren't there? It's interesting that all the singers held up to be better are male and rock singers.[/quote]

There were plenty of female singers of all genres at Glasto that were more in tune than Florence. There were a few standing behind her on stage, for example.

[quote]I think people are missing the point, it's all about performance and engaging the audience with her. She was clearly so charged with adrenaline she lost it a little. She came on so fired up she did miss a few notes then she nailed it for a bit but overdid the jumping around and lost her breath and control at the same time. The audience clearly loved it. Do we have different standards for women I wonder? A lot of the acts lost vocal control towards the end of their sets, Roger Daltrey for one but I'd rather see an act taking risks and entertaining than just delivering and failing to engage.[/quote]

Yeah, a few grams of best Colombian adrenalin, I'll wager! She missed more than a few notes, I don't think she had one song where she stayed in tune. I'm confused as to why you think any attack on Florence is an attack on female singers though. She wasn't singled out because of her gender, she was singled out because of her performance.

[quote]In the past I've seen sets where she has just nailed every note, remarkably so with some of the intervals she uses. There's a difference between not being able to sing for toffee and messing up. Who here hasn't messed up playing or singing live.

OK the music isn't for everyone, I'm a sucker for a good pop song. I personally find most rock songs and rock bands dull and derivative, just not my taste, but I don't come on and slag off Dave Grohl for having an off day and going raspy and shouty at the end of a set.[/quote]

Y'see, here's the thing. I've watched her perform a few times. Granted, the music isn't my cup of tea (the best description of it that I've heard is the sound a flock of owls would make in a wind chime shop) but I can appreciate a good song for what it is. Yes, there is a difference between not being able to sing and messing up. But when you appear to mess up constantly, then it does start to come off as a bit more than a bad gig.

[miles'tone]

FKA Twigs on the otherhand gave an incredible performance.
Running around, spinning and diving with her dancers while never losing her puff and hitting every note every time.
Her style is pretty eclectic and not for everyone here, but she is a brilliant artist. So very humble too.
She's my Glasto fave by a long way.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1435654471' post='2810924']
There's a few grumpy old men on this thread aren't there? It's interesting that all the singers held up to be better are male and rock singers.
...
I'm a bit worried that we find it ok to criticize women more easily than men.
[/quote]

That's an interesting point and one which has got me thinking. I can think of a few female singers whose pitch can be wayward at times and whose work I really enjoy. I was a 90s teenager, so the singers I was listening to in my formative years included Kim Gordon in Sonic Youth and even Courtney Love in Hole. I think in a more rocky/grungy context where roughness is part of the aesthetic I can enjoy roughly pitched vocals, and the reason Florence's singing can seem jarring to me is that roughness doesn't seem to be what she's going for. So I would hope that in my case it's not about gender.
I think that when the music is something I can connect with, things like intonation bother me less or even add to it, and it would be fair to say that this is just a style I'm not particularly into. Clearly there was a massive audience who did feel that connection so I guess Florence wasn't a bad choice of headliner, but myself I would have been hanging out at one of the smaller stages watching something different.

[Woodinblack]

I saw her glastonbury set on the tv as something I wanted to listen to. I had heard something by her before and some people who normally have reasonable taste said she was good, and it hadn't really shown. I got to the 'ship to wreck' track, and yes, it was slight off but to me it is a really irritating song, it has got way too much chorus and way too little verse, so it is just the chorus over and over. Not impressed.

I did think she gave a good 'performance' though, if I liked her I would have been impressed (as I have heard most people singing off key), but sadly didn't.

[el borracho]

Everytime I hear Ship to Wreck all I can hear is Away by The Bolshoi

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzFu-ze8pA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzFu-ze8pA[/url]

[Woodinblack]

I don't - I love away by the bolshoi, its a good song with good (if a bit daft) lyrics but think that ship to wreck is a whiny repetitive song

[dadofsix]

Listened to Ship to Wreck. She really reminded me of Chrissie Hynde of the Pretenders.

[el borracho]

Not talking about the lyrics, more the structure and feel of the song

[Woodinblack]

Yep, thats what I was arguing with, obviously not the words. As I said earlier, the verses are very short and the chorus is way too long and repetitive. Sure, Away's chorus repeats twice, but the verses are long and full, so the structure is very different.
I will admit the actual word 'away' is sung much like the 'to wreck' part that she warbles every 20 seconds, but even that is just with squinting.

[timmo]

Florence must have won over a lot of people as her CD sales are up. It looks like Ritchie is a big winner, as far as CD sales are concerned, as his 2003 greatest hits has stormed up the charts. I guess that is how you can rate someones performance. If they win new fans, then job done.

[Phil Starr]

It's a fair cop, I'm a grumpy old bugger at times. I was particularly grumpy at what I saw was gratuitous criticism. She didn't sing flat throughout, she missed a few notes and she left quite a few dropping off at the end of a line instead of holding them but it was an energetic performance which her audience loved. I can see why Kanye got criticised his 'Freddie' was awful but there were a lot of missed notes from a lot of performers, and I dare say we all miss the odd note most weekends, it's a function of live music almost.

However, on another thread I've asked why people offer criticism. (in this case a punter at a gig criticising a band member). Is it meant to be constructive and helpful or something less pleasant. I'm kind of against slagging off acts in general as opposed to analysing the good and bad (good grief, z in analysing, really!??)

So why single out one act? Why bother to comment at all really?

The irony isn't lost on me, I was clearly criticising the critics but do I think women who put their heads above the parapet get more flak than men? Yes, there is a tendency for extra scrutiny even from other women. Is that worth a mention from time to time? Well you caught me on a bad day.

[paul j h]

I watched most of her set on Iplayer today, I was not really that au fait with her stuff but thought her performance was much better than lots of the other acts I had seen. I think there was a problem with the live sound on a number of the bands at this years Glasto, a few were ropey until about three songs in to their sets. Overall, and I speak as a former Glastonbury attendee I think the line up was weak this year, but it has been getting progressively worse (or I am getting older). People moaning about being off key a few times when nervous, what about Dolly Parton miming last time FFS that's a real travesty.

[tauzero]

I thought the thing about Dolly Parton miming (well, apart from the sax bit) had been adequately debunked by now. Have I missed something?

[KevB]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1435876419' post='2813342']
I thought the thing about Dolly Parton miming (well, apart from the sax bit) had been adequately debunked by now. Have I missed something?
[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzKZQkFUfHg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzKZQkFUfHg[/url]

With headphones it does sound a bit iffy, unless whoever put the clip together actually deliberately and maliciously put the same sound file attributed to different performances. Even someone who had seen her for over 30 years and was an avid fan came out and said she'd been doing it for about the last 5 or 6 years prior to Glasto.