Genz Benz Shuttle 9 Speakon Experience..

[Chaos Daveo]

Hello All,

Just thought id share my speakon ignorance with you all as it may help an unfortunate soul along the way and avoid imbarresment.I recently scored a shuttle 9 for dirt cheap and merrily plugged in my spekons last to find the had no output and had jammed right in, bugger so its being sent for repair to get them out without damaging the amp.My question to you all is how many variants of speakon are there (I had always assumed there was only one) and which do i need to buy to sort myself out (I usually run 2 x 2x10 eden nemisis cabs).


Maybe a silly idea but for those not in the know is there a list on bass chat of what amp takes what as a point of refrance might be an idea,knowing me is probably already on here and ive missed the boat..

[72deluxe]

I thought there was only two types of speakon connectors - the black ones and the green ones. The black ones take ordinary speakon connectors (the ones that are the safest because you will never ever short the contacts out whilst removing them, so it is technically perfectly safe with non-tube amps to disconnect the speaker whilst it is in use!).

The dark green ones also take Speakon connectors but have a larger slot in the middle for taking jacks. These are rarer connectors and I would prefer to never ever use jacks for connecting speakers, particularly if a clueless person puts in a guitar lead as a speaker cable (which would not be thick enough to act as a speaker cable).

As for the connectors themselves, the official ones are Neutrik but you can get cheapo speakon cables from ebay etc. that DO not use official Neutrik connectors and may be of variable quality; I think Neutrik licence the use of them?? I have bought speaker cables on ebay that had rubbish quality speaker cable and non-Neutrik connectors and there are far flimsier than they should be.

[gapiro]

There are 4 pole and 2 pole versions of speakon, if thats whta you mean

[mike257]

There are four pole and two pole versions (NL4 and NL2), the four pole female will accept two pole male connectors but not vice versa. Most manufacturers use the four pole sockets as standard for this reason. There is also an eight pole NL8 version which is physically larger and is generally only seen in larger PA applications when four individual signals (for example: sub, low, mid, hi) can be carried in a single run.

[Chaos Daveo]

I think some NL2's may be in order then by the sound of things, thanks for the responses.

[Dan Dare]

In my experience, one should only use Neutrik speakons. Some of the copies around are a poor fit - could be greater risk of jamming.

[Alec]

Just to resurrect this ancient thread...

 

I'd been having grief with the connection on my NEOX 212T cab recently, with the speakon cable not engaging in the locked position firmly.  Worse still, on a couple of shows, vibration has caused the connector to rotate slightly off centre, cutting signal.  All highly irritating.

 

I went to investigate today and discovered that Genz Benz shockingly used non Neutrik speakon sockets, and that the plastic in mine had clearly worn, such that the locking function had become more or less ineffective.  Thankfully, replacement with a genuine Neutrik connector was a quick job, and the problem is now fixed.  Comparison of the cheapo copy and the real article are chalk and cheese, with the Neitrik having a steel channel for the locking nub to sit in, rather than just weak plastic.

 

I know that Genz Benz have not been a thing for years, but shame on them for cheaping out on connectors like that.  Proper shoddy work.

Here's a couple of photos, clearly showing the wear on the cheap copy on the left, compared with the genuine article on the right.

 

Edited September 30 by Alec

[itu]

Neutrik is most likely using lots of GF in the PA = glass fiber in the polyamide. That copy may have a small percentage of glass in it, or not. In the original connector the glass content may be something like 30 - 60 %.

[Downunderwonder]

Bad day at the office left production short of genuine?

 

Someone filched good ones and substituted fakes somewhere along the line?

 

I really doubt they are all like that but it would pay to check your GenzBenz cabinet right away!

 

 

 

[Alec]

4 hours ago, itu said:

Neutrik is most likely using lots of GF in the PA = glass fiber in the polyamide. That copy may have a small percentage of glass in it, or not. In the original connector the glass content may be something like 30 - 60 %.

 

Yup, that could be part of it, too.  But it does look like that steel channel would contribute to the positive locking experience

 

 

4 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

I really doubt they are all like that but it would pay to check your GenzBenz cabinet right away!

 

 

Here's what's in my STL-10T, bought at the same time.  No visible branding at all, but does appear to have the steel locking channel.  Looks like GB just used whatever cheap crap they had available.

 

This is what gets me about the whole "built in the US thing" that Americans rave about.  So much of it is 1950s and quite agricultural.  In the rest of the world, quality gear would always just have Neutrik connectors.

Edited September 30 by Alec

[Dan Dare]

6 hours ago, Alec said:

This is what gets me about the whole "built in the US thing" that Americans rave about.  So much of it is 1950s and quite agricultural.  In the rest of the world, quality gear would always just have Neutrik connectors.

 

There's some truth in that, but Switchcraft stuff, which is American, certainly isn't rubbish. Ditto CTS.

[agedhorse]

This American bashing stuff gets really old, and it's ironic in this case because the SpeakOn was a European design that was horribly flawed when first introduced. Everybody seems to forget the ridiculously unreliable locking ring that was changed in short order to various versions of the thumb latch...  and the lack of the metal insert was part of the original Neutrik design for at least 5 years!

 

Since Alec posted a rant thread on TalkBass which I answered, in the spirit of accuracy and honesty I provided the following information to set the record straight for those who think they know more about this subject than they actually do.

 

----------------------------------------

 

The original Neutrik part did NOT have the metal insert, they didn't start using metal inserts until a little later. Our replacement part was developed at a time when Neutrik was so backed up that they couldn't ship the NL4MP part for over 1 year when they were struggling with regulatory compliance for flame spread and their original jack series was non-compliant to the necessary safety standard under the 60065 edition 8 fire enclosure regulations (which specifically applies to amps, but using 2 different parts for amps and speakers (if we could even get the old part) made no sense. This was actually a licensed Neutrik part manufactured Neutrik's Rean division using a different glass filled Nylon (PA-66) compound that had lower flame spread. Ironically, they had to do another update to comply with the flame spread requirements for IEC 62368, where the punched opening in the sheet metal was close enough to a PIS that the part needed a lower flame spread rating, it's due to the (much) more compact nature of the newer amps.

Below is the original Neutrik branded part that we used at that time, it suffered from exactly the same wear issues as well, every pro audio manufacturer of that time dealt with the same thing. You have to remember that your speaker is between 15 and 20 years old, technology and regulations change through over time.

If you had really understood what you were talking about, you might have chosen your words more correctly and diplomatically. Also, you may not know this either, but the Genz Benz factory service program is still "a thing". Factory support for the products exists throughout the US, Canada, and much of Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan.

 

 

---

 

Follow-up:

The glass filled PA-66 material that's used on the jacks is about the same wear as the original material, but the flame spread rating is higher on the updated part in order to comply with the newer safety standard. The metal insert was introduced by Neutrik and Rean at the same time because of wear issues, it's unrelated to perceived "quality" differences.

Perhaps you are unaware, but Rean is owned by Neutrik AG and handles much of the OEM development of connectors as well as the manufacturing of Neutrik, Rean and OEM branded components and connectors for products and assemblies built in Asia and some markets in North & South America. OEM's often use customized versions of connectors for the purposes of regulatory compliance, cosmetics (color, logo, cosmetics), and in some cases to achieve things that can't be done with stock off the shelf components (like for example bonding modifications for pin 1 terminal on XLR jacks) in high volume applications.

The models with R in front are marketed through the Rean channels but are identical in performance and share the same ETL safety listing certificate because they are in fact the same company:

 

 

[Musicman20]

4 hours ago, agedhorse said:

This American bashing stuff gets really old, and it's ironic in this case because the SpeakOn was a European design that was horribly flawed when first introduced. Everybody seems to forget the ridiculously unreliable locking ring that was changed in short order to various versions of the thumb latch...  and the lack of the metal insert was part of the original Neutrik design for at least 5 years!

 

 

...and this is why I love Genz Benz still! Thanks for sharing this, and clearing it up. I have had no issues with mine.

[Stub Mandrel]

Got me looking at all my stuff.

 

Cabs:

PJB - Neutrik

GRBASS - Neutrik

Fun Generation (Thomann) - no nameme
Peavey - no name

 

Amps

 

Orange - no-name with metal channel.

Behringer - Chen Shung (or something like it) 4-pole (PA amp, for bi-amping)

 

I've been using mostly Stagg cables and one Pronomic, with no issues whatsoever for about four years.

 

[BassmanPaul]

I have been Speakon only on all of my equipment for decades. I've never had a problem in all that time. mind you I do only ever use Neutrik made parts.

Edited October 20 by BassmanPaul

[NHM]

Fender Bassman 500 - Neutrik

Peavey MiniMax - no branding on visible surface, but metal guide channel.