Sitting in the mix.......good, or bad?

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='tbonepete' timestamp='1435833006' post='2812800']
it's about the relationship between the stage mix, and the front of house mix.
[/quote]

But you havn't told us what that relationship is in your case, so to ask a simple question - are you getting a good out front mix or not ?.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1435848436' post='2813010']
why..? you can either hear everything or you can't?

If you aren't running front of house, your onstage mix becomes THE mix.
We use mons for vox only and if I can't hear an instrument onstage, I'm wondering why straight away.
I'm playing WITH the guys so I want to hear everything. There can be no guesses otherwise you'll
never get a tight band
[/quote]

People in the audience are firstly, mostly in the direction of where your amps are pointing and secondly, a moreorless equal distance from them. Once your actually on the stage and are usually much closer to certain sound sources than others and you at much more of an angle to them, the odds that you will hear on stage anything close to what the audience hears are remote IME.

In the past I've come up with some creative solutions for this such as taking a line out from the guitarists amp and feeding a bit of signal into the keyboard players amp (on the other side of the stage were we are).

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1435848690' post='2813016']
There's nothing wrong with two instruments producing the same frequencies, as long as it doesn't get mushy
[/quote]

Blending frequencies can sound good if done properly, on live recording especially, Jon and Richie in purple used to double up on rhythm riffs (e.g. the main riff to smoke on the water). AC/DC do likewise with the guitar and bass much of the time with the rhythm guitar and bass blended to point where its difficult to hear them separately.

Edit: was just listening to Rock or Bust. Play Ball has rhythm guitar playing in a different register than the bass on a different rhythm, Rock The House OTOH has blended bass/rhythm to the point where it almost sounds like a single guitar with an extra string on the bottom. Kind of exemplifies both approaches.

Edited July 2, 2015 by bassman7755

[mrtcat]

I never take the stage sound to be acceptable for the foh mix. Even in a pub with no engineer I'll use a wireless lead and stand out front to soundcheck and tweak accordingly. There's absolutely no way I can stand next to the drummers hi hat whilst the guitarists amp is over by his floor tom and the keyboardist has his monitor beyond the guitarist and say "yep that sounds good out front".

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1435872411' post='2813311']
I never take the stage sound to be acceptable for the foh mix. Even in a pub with no engineer I'll use a wireless lead and stand out front to soundcheck and tweak accordingly. There's absolutely no way I can stand next to the drummers hi hat whilst the guitarists amp is over by his floor tom and the keyboardist has his monitor beyond the guitarist and say "yep that sounds good out front".
[/quote]

I've been lucky that all the bands I've played in have been very disciplined about setting levels at the sound check based on someone out front and then never adjusting their own levels mid set unless on advice from a trusted source (e.g. someone in the audience who knows there sound stuff).

[peteb]

This is not something that I have ever had a problem with – I get what a sound that I’m happy with that seems to work well both on stage and out front. However I usually play in what are essentially three pieces, so there are generally pretty sparse arrangements with big guitar sounds. Does this give me more leeway as far as choosing a bass sound / how I EQ the amp than if I was playing in a bigger ensemble??

It’s hard for me to say because but I would imagine that if I was playing (for example) in a 7 piece band with brass or whatever then I may have to use a flatter less aggressive bass sound? I am interested to find out if people here think that is correct?

[KevB]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1435872411' post='2813311']
I never take the stage sound to be acceptable for the foh mix. Even in a pub with no engineer I'll use a wireless lead and stand out front to soundcheck and tweak accordingly. There's absolutely no way I can stand next to the drummers hi hat whilst the guitarists amp is over by his floor tom and the keyboardist has his monitor beyond the guitarist and say "yep that sounds good out front".
[/quote]

Thanks, you've put it more succinctly than I could.

[JTUK]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1435872411' post='2813311']
I never take the stage sound to be acceptable for the foh mix. Even in a pub with no engineer I'll use a wireless lead and stand out front to soundcheck and tweak accordingly. There's absolutely no way I can stand next to the drummers hi hat whilst the guitarists amp is over by his floor tom and the keyboardist has his monitor beyond the guitarist and say "yep that sounds good out front".
[/quote]

Works for us and I'd venture we had ..consistantly, one of the very best sounds around. Admittedly, we lost that a tad, when we changed a couple of members but in a pub, the mix is invaribly as easy as it gets, IME....once you have worked out what you are doing. And that is what set-up is all about and why you have to have everyone buy into what are trying to do and actually do it every gig.