chris_b Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 In his prime Baker was a great drummer. The trouble is he hasn't been in a band that could use his skills since Cream split and that's a very long time to be fed up, frustrated and broke! Add a lack of social skills and this is what you get. Cream totally changed what was possible with 3 musicians and, along with Jeff Beck opened the door to what would become Rock. Ginger Baker forged a new path in rock drumming. Don't look at him now look at him back then and judge his playing against the drummers that were "tip tapping" their way politely around their kits. He blew most of them into the weeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 He did, I agree, but I wouldn't put Bonzo In the category of drummers "tip tapping"! Have you heard Whole Lotta Love? That, my friends, is a backbeat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Cream had broken up before the likes of Led Zep and Deep Purple etc were formed so Bonzo and the others were following and building on what Baker started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Been a while since I saw the documentary. Certainly a character but wouldn't want to work with him. Spent a fortune on stuff (like running polo ponies) then moans he's broke. Complains about what others have earned (from songwriting royalties)but hasn't written much of note himself. Definitely file under 'own worst enemy'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1436519472' post='2818743'] In his prime Baker was a great drummer. The trouble is he hasn't been in a band that could use his skills since Cream split and that's a very long time to be fed up, frustrated and broke! Add a lack of social skills and this is what you get. Cream totally changed what was possible with 3 musicians and, along with Jeff Beck opened the door to what would become Rock. Ginger Baker forged a new path in rock drumming. Don't look at him now look at him back then and judge his playing against the drummers that were "tip tapping" their way politely around their kits. He blew most of them into the weeds. [/quote] Ringo didn't tip-tap politely around his kit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel36 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1436520600' post='2818771'] Ringo didn't tip-tap politely around his kit... [/quote] Neither did Bobby Graham or Ronnie Stephenson or kenny Clare, but I love Ginger's playing. Now this guy certainly doesn't tip tap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Nv_3cwl10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Ringo is another under rated drummer. He changed the way most drummers played and performed but he wasn't the "force of nature" that Baker was and others became. You can list as many great drummers as you like. You're only disagreeing with [i]my [/i]definition, not what Ginger Baker was or the influence he had on rock drummers. Before Baker there weren't any "rock" drummers. After Ginger Baker . . . . . you can't count them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1436521607' post='2818793'] Ringo is another under rated drummer. He changed the way most drummers played and performed but he wasn't the "force of nature" that Baker was and others became. You can list as many great drummers as you like. You're only disagreeing with [i]my [/i]definition, not what Ginger Baker was or the influence he had on rock drummers. Before Baker there weren't any "rock" drummers. After Ginger Baker . . . . . you can't count them. [/quote] That's a fair point. I can imagine the impact he had drummers at the time - it must have looked like he'd dropped in from Mars. But it doesn't make him any good (in my opinion). He's always going on about he well he swings... I haven't heard it yet. I'd like to have heard Buddy Rich adapt to playing with Cream. That would have been worth seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 [quote name='Colonel36' timestamp='1436521206' post='2818785'] Now this guy certainly doesn't tip tap. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Nv_3cwl10[/media] [/quote] His Rhythm section partner in crime, didn't tip tap either. Bass at 10:00. (I believe it's Russ Stableford playing Bass). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlPc3i2_Kps And the 'Muppet Orchestra' website. http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/The_Muppet_Orchestra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1436523634' post='2818822'] His Rhythm section partner in crime, didn't tip tap either. Bass at 10:00. (I believe it's Russ Stableford playing Bass). [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlPc3i2_Kps[/media] And the 'Muppet Orchestra' website. [url="http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/The_Muppet_Orchestra"]http://muppet.wikia....uppet_Orchestra[/url] [/quote] Next time the rest of my band call me a muppet i'll take it as a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 A few choice quotes from Ginger in 2010, Classic Rock Magazine - [color=#000000][font=verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=2]"Keith Moon as a drummer? Nah. He was good with The Who, I suppose, when he tried to play like me....Moonie was a wonderful guy, but if you're going to judge from minus two to 10 then I'm a golden 10. Mitch Mitchell [The Jimi Hendrix Experience] was a journeyman. He was hopeless. John Bonham [Led Zeppelin], Ringo Starr [The Beatles], Charlie Watts [The Rolling Stones]...they're all three or four" .... [/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=2]"But I hate the Stones and always have done. Mick Jagger is a musical moron. True, he is an economic genius. Most of 'em are *beep* morons....Paul McCartney boasts he can't read music! How can you call yourself a musicican, then? John Lennon was the best musician in The Beatles by a country mile. He was a very talented guy. But George Martin was The Beatles. Without him they'd have been nowhere."[/size][/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikenbass Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I agree with him regarding George Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I caught this while on my hols in Whitby. Was slightly shocked but not surprised by his attitude. I mean there's plenty of miserable gits about in life anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 [quote name='Bikenbass' timestamp='1436555531' post='2819206'] I agree with him regarding George Martin. [/quote] I'm not a huge Beatles fan. But I think there was enough talent in the band that they would have been fairly successful whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 This is bloody awful: http://youtu.be/cb-zUvQMO5I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) Spoombung's first comment is spot on. Edited July 11, 2015 by Dan Dare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdreadful Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Watched the documentary as I've liked Cream from an early age (my dad ensured that my musical education was excellent). I get the comments about what a total bastard Baker appears to be, but I actually feel sorry for him because it's clear that the only time he is really happy and at ease with the world is when he's behind a drumkit and however fantastic a drummer you may be that's a really sad way to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 There was an interview that Chad Smith did with Ginger, I won't link it - it's frightfully cringeworthy. He came across as a total arse. I read a few pages of his book, he came across as a total arse. I won't watch the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 [quote name='AndyTravis' timestamp='1436655269' post='2819851'] There was an interview that Chad Smith did with Ginger, I won't link it - it's frightfully cringeworthy. He came across as a total arse. I read a few pages of his book, he came across as a total arse. I won't watch the film. [/quote] It's worth watching, despite the subject matter. It's an incredibly well-made film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@23 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I avoided the film too, its been on Netflix for a while. Might give it a go then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) [quote name='mrdreadful' timestamp='1436652329' post='2819834'] I get the comments about what a total bastard Baker appears to be, but I actually feel sorry for him because it's clear that the only time he is really happy and at ease with the world is when he's behind a drumkit and however fantastic a drummer you may be that's a really sad way to live. [/quote] I agree, but I also feel sorry for the unfortunate people who have (had) to work with him. He does not appear to have ever tried to help himself by way of counseling etc. I suppose the first step is to realise you are being an ***hole, and need help. Neither were apparent in the film. He seems to blame everyone and anyone else, except himself, for his troubles. Edited July 12, 2015 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roceci Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Really well made & watchable doc about an absolute sh*tehouse of a man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 [quote name='roceci' timestamp='1436696258' post='2819951'] Really well made & watchable doc about an absolute sh*tehouse of a man. [/quote]not even a good drummer if you don't like Jazz, IMO, I'd hate to have to play bass with him, not fond of overly busy drummers, or overly busy anything really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1436698400' post='2819971'] not even a good drummer if you don't like Jazz, IMO, I'd hate to have to play bass with him, not fond of overly busy drummers, or overly busy anything really [/quote] Not even a good drummer if you [i]like [/i]Jazz, either, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Watched it - enjoyed it! I hate to be down on people, but a massive +1 on all the comments about Mr. Baker. Came across as thoroughly unpleasant. A shame. It made me wonder that apart from Cream, he did very little of note afterwards, that's what he's best known for. Maybe it's that's the problem that's putting him in such a mood! I can see his issue - in the fact that Mitch Mitchell couldn't get much work after Jimi died. Even got turned down for Wings. As an ex/out of practice drummer, I've always enjoyed listening to Mitch far more than Ginger. Always found old Ginge a bit sterile IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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