Billy Apple Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I really enjoyed the film and took a different message than most have said here. I reckon he's someone who is deeply damaged by the death of his Father, He has serious abandonment issues. He anticipates people leaving him by end gaming and leaving them first. He is deliberately thorny so when people have enough of him he can say 'Ha people are bastards'. It's a role he plays to protect himself from being hurt. I've seen this in a couple of people I know who have either been adopted or have lost parents very young. If he really was an abhorrent person he's be sticking pins in animals, not caring for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Just watched this BBC Scotland documentary on Jack Bruce (whilst he was still alive) with lots of commentary from his wife, Clapton, Baker and Pete Brown. Baker pretty much comes across as a bit of a buffoon in his sections and is constantly contradicted by Bruce and, more tellingly, by Clapton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3KBEq95N5U Interestingly, Bruce claims that Baker sacked him from the Graham Bond Organisation “at the wrong end of a knife”… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roceci Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1436732737' post='2820363'] I really enjoyed the film and took a different message than most have said here. I reckon he's someone who is deeply damaged by the death of his Father, He has serious abandonment issues. He anticipates people leaving him by end gaming and leaving them first. He is deliberately thorny so when people have enough of him he can say 'Ha people are bastards'. It's a role he plays to protect himself from being hurt. I've seen this in a couple of people I know who have either been adopted or have lost parents very young. If he really was an abhorrent person he's be sticking pins in animals, not caring for them. [/quote] That's actually probably spot on. Roger Waters syndrome sorta thing. Still, he's a grown man & should really sort his sh*t out, particularly where his family's concerned. Talking of family...was it just me or did his current missus seem really odd around him? Something not right there :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 He is a sad sadistict mixed up man, but I think journalists like to poke him with sticks and make him admit it, which I find a little uncomfortable. Finding out the history of his drumming and what musically outfits he's been in is interesting , but another interview asking him if he regrets things is a bit lazy now I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 [quote name='roceci' timestamp='1436741133' post='2820421'] That's actually probably spot on. Roger Waters syndrome sorta thing. Still, he's a grown man & should really sort his sh*t out, particularly where his family's concerned. Talking of family...was it just me or did his current missus seem really odd around him? Something not right there :/ [/quote] Yes i thought that. There was clearly a long pause before she answered the question put to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1436732737' post='2820363'] I really enjoyed the film and took a different message than most have said here. I reckon he's someone who is deeply damaged by the death of his Father, He has serious abandonment issues. He anticipates people leaving him by end gaming and leaving them first. He is deliberately thorny so when people have enough of him he can say 'Ha people are bastards'. It's a role he plays to protect himself from being hurt. I've seen this in a couple of people I know who have either been adopted or have lost parents very young. [/quote] There is no doubt that his childhood was....lets say..."not the norm". However, it also must be said, that neither was Clapton's, and while he (Clapton) can be a pain in the butt sometimes, it is fair to say that he is not near as obnoxious as our dear Mr Baker. If Baker had spent some time and money on professional help for his problems, instead of lambasting everyone and anyone he comes across, we all might have seen a different Ginger Baker portrayed in the film. Granted, it is possible that professional help may not have worked, but AFAIK it was never sought. Blaming the past is not an excuse IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1436732737' post='2820363'] I've seen this in a couple of people I know who have either been adopted or have lost parents very young. [/quote] I've been fostered, adopted and given up again, and know plenty of people like me who have grown up troubled and unwanted, but came out as nice decent caring people (who know how much these things hurt so wont want to inflict it on others). I also know people with disney backgrounds who are horrible, vindictive and walk over anyone. Edited July 18, 2015 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1437229706' post='2824571'] I've been fostered, adopted and given up again, and know plenty of people like me who have grown up troubled and unwanted, but came out as nice decent caring people (who know how much these things hurt so wont want to inflict it on others). I also know people with disney backgrounds who are horrible, vindictive and walk over anyone. [/quote] Good for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1437237996' post='2824626'] Good for you. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1437229706' post='2824571'] I've been fostered, adopted and given up again, and know plenty of people like me who have grown up troubled and unwanted, but came out as nice decent caring people (who know how much these things hurt so wont want to inflict it on others). I also know people with [b]disney backgrounds who are horrible, vindictive and walk over anyone.[/b] [/quote] Like Walt Disney?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1437239655' post='2824633'] Like Walt Disney?! [/quote] Yeah like the movies , just saying that a bad childhood doesn't make you act badly, at least as an adult. Mr Baker has a choice. Edited July 18, 2015 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 [quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1437257780' post='2824734'] I don't really care for Ginger's contributions in Cream. Those rolling jazz rhythms don't propel the music along enough for my tastes. [/quote] Thank God! I've thought this for years, but never mentioned the heresy. I bloody hate drummers who 'play along' instead of 'propelling', it makes life difficult for the bass player as you have to do more than your fair share of propelling, which I resent as the result isn't greater than the sum of its parts (which it should be) and you inevitably end up being hung out to dry. If you have a 'play along' drummer AND a 'play along' bass player, you have a very sorry band indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1437260163' post='2824750'] I guess with Cream you had to be there. [/quote] I recognise GB's contribution to the history and all that, and Born Under A Bad Sign is a favourite. But I don't seek out Cream recordings to listen to the rhythm section, as I do with one or two other bands of the era. Edited July 18, 2015 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Spot on, Meddle. Can't stand these types who say "I play jazz, therefore I'm a better musician than you pop/rock simpletons". They're pathetic snobs, hung up on technique at the expense of musicality. Have had my share of their b/s over the years. Half of them can't even play a straight four in the bar without throwing in all sorts of inappropriate off beats, etc. When you ask the to keep it simple/solid, they look at you pityingly. They should listen to Simon Kirke - a fine technician who isn't ashamed to play it straight if that's what the music demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I think that's the first time I've heard a shout for Simon Kirke on these esteemed pages, Dan Dare. Amazing drummer and should be a household name IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 [quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1437331924' post='2825140'] Can't stand these types who say "I play jazz, therefore I'm a better musician than you pop/rock simpletons". [/quote] I can't remember the last time I either heard or read of somebody making such a statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 [quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1437331924' post='2825140'] They're pathetic snobs, hung up on technique at the expense of musicality. . . . . Half of them can't even play a straight four in the bar without throwing in all sorts of inappropriate off beats, etc. When you ask the to keep it simple/solid, they look at you pityingly. [/quote] You've just dissed the Funk Brothers, most of the Cutting Crew and Tommy Cogbill. Nice one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 [quote name='seashell' timestamp='1437333437' post='2825152'] I think that's the first time I've heard a shout for Simon Kirke... Amazing drummer and should be a household name IMHO. [/quote] He [i]is[/i] a household name. At least in our household he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytoad Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 is this off iplayer now? i cant find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Should still be on Netflix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Watched it last night. He was no doubt an iconoclast, but if ever there was a man who should not have had kids... On the other hand that kind of single-minded selfishness makes it possible to be incredibly focused... how many here would devote more time to playing were it not for their family and relationship responsibilities..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Awesome drummer but im afraid i would have shoved that cane right up his arse regardless of how good/iconic he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 He was an intimidating guy. They wanted Jim Capaldi for Blind Faith, but Ginger heard Clapton was forming a band and didn't wait to be asked. Eric said, There was a knock on the door and it was Ginger. He moved in and took over the drums. If I'd have known it was that easy to join a top band back then I'd have done a lot better than I did!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 [quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1437855496' post='2829592'] It seems a recurring theme in a lot of truely gifted artists, be they painters, poets, musicians, directors, comedians... their private lives are horrid! [/quote] I've no stats to back it up, but I'd suggest that maybe there's a similar number of regular folks, business bosses, university professors, shop assistants etc who equally have, or have had, horrid private lives. I'd be wary of suggesting anything causal as far as artistry is concerned. Maybe, but then again, maybe not. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 [quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1437855496' post='2829592'] It seems a recurring theme in a lot of truely gifted artists, be they painters, poets, musicians, directors, comedians... their private lives are horrid! [/quote] When I used to work the social club scene as a singer I worked with dozens of comedians. Pretty much all of them were the most miserable and boring people I have ever come across off stage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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