Dan Dare Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Think you'll have to leave. These things are rarely resolved in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It would take some front on the part of the band turning up at the Dog&Duck armed with perspex surrounds for the drummist though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yeah, just leave. Guitarist and drummer are too loud and completely ignorant of that fact. If you played that loud at a pub you'd be asked to leave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Two solutions, both of which have been previously mentioned. 1) put your drummer in one of the plastic hamster cage thingies (possibly your guitar player too by the sounds of it) or 2) remove yourself from the situation and find a band without volume monsters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1436795630' post='2820799'] It would take some front on the part of the band turning up at the Dog&Duck armed with perspex surrounds for the drummist though. [/quote] But they could spend the whole evening playing [i][b]Rawhide [/b][/i]... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1436795698' post='2820800'] ...If you played that loud at a pub you'd be asked to leave! [/quote] Really? I don't see a lot of live music in pubs, but whenever I do, it's far too loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1436792283' post='2820760'] No, you weren't. Nice attempt at revisionism though. [/quote] Hmmm. [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1435959482' post='2814081'] Me neither, but they must be in somebodies band, or else who are all these guitarist gripes based on? Surely not just hearsay and rumour? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbandit599 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Had a similar, though less extreme, situation with my drummer. He tried some of those rods that are alternatives to sticks, went through a few different types in the end because he actually liked the sound -which was also a bit quieter too. He's back on sticks now but somehow the experience of playing quieter has rubbed off and drum volume is no longer an issue. He also uses moon gel on his toms, primarily to get the sound the likes but it also kills some of the resonance, more thud than bang now. Might be worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 All the advice you need is above. IEM's are one option, however if he has drummed so loudly for so long as to cause himself to start to lose his hearing then you probably don't have much of a chance of sorting stuff. The biggest time when someone starts to really think about the volume they play at is when they really start to notice their hearing is going. If he knows his hearing is going and is still playing that loudly, then it'll be hard to convince him to change. A polite conversation is the only option and explaining that you aren't going to be able to continue playing with them because of the volume is a good starting point. Also explaining that there's no chance of getting any repeat gigs at any small venues because the drums will make the gig not enjoyable and they'll probably get a load of complaints from regular punters. Only real options that I can see. Hope it sorts itself out. Remember your hearing is far more valuable than playing with any band no matter how good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1436796407' post='2820811'] Hmmm. [/quote] The sentence you quoted and the suggestion that you were "told in no uncertain terms that guitarists like this don't exist anymore" are in absolutely no way equivalent. Still, if it makes you happy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1436779336' post='2820560'] Sorry to be harsh, but... you don't. It's a situation I'm familiar with. Once a drummer's hearing goes, it's a slippery slope. [/quote] Agree.... If a band has to wear plugs ...and not from an attritional POV, then the band have MAJOR problems. I'm surprised it hasn't affected booking if he is that loud. For me, it would be crunch time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1436800066' post='2820870'] The sentence you quoted and the suggestion that you were "told in no uncertain terms that guitarists like this don't exist anymore" are in absolutely no way equivalent. Still, if it makes you happy... [/quote] I wasn't going to quote the entire thread. It's there to read. I had assumed you were using sarcasm in that quote. This thread serves as another real world example of exactly the points you were refuting. There are drummers and guitarists and bands who play too loudly and are seeming unaware of their volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG3 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I played with a drummer that could play smashing the drums and only smashing the drums, he would probably be louder than Motorhead without being mic'd up. Even on quiet songs he would come in wayyyy louder than everyone else, was always a laugh between me and two mates who are also drummers and can play at a decent level. I like loud, but there's a limit and he was way off in the distance. Unfortunately in my experience suggesting to play a little quieter works for about 10 seconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerstodge Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 [quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1436779949' post='2820571'] Ah I suspect this will be the case. My ears are ringing today and that's after wearing plugs all night; my right ear actually hurts a bit. I don't think losing my hearing is worth it! Great idea about the electric kit - the next thing is to make the guitarist wear headphones and not deafen everyone with his insane volume too. I only meant the drummer has great feel and groove and sounds great when he plays quietly - it's when he "gets into it" where Concorde taking off is quieter. I have a few cats and have attempted to herd them, but to no avail; they completely ignore me. I suspect trying to change their attitudes will be just as effective. It's a pity really. Thanks! EDIT: I could get a SPL meter wired up to power outlets that trip the power off for everyone like they do in village halls??? A measurement microphone to convince them that they're as loud as a pneumatic drill at 1M would be non-arguable, eh? [/quote] i doubt that he'd use an electronic kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) 72, After having problems finding drummer who could play loud, we actually advertised for a loud drummer in the early 80s. A guy called Ron turned up he was really good, and he was the loudest I have ever played with, but after a bit he got to be too much. Last I heard he was living around Stourbridge way. Just noticed your in Worc;s. Edited July 13, 2015 by BILL POSTERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72deluxe Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Ah this isn't Ron - he's got another (anonymous) name. Perhaps he's the same guy under a pseudonym? I think he has an electronic kit somewhere but I have been in bands where I ended up buying all the gear and convincing my fellow band members to buy a simple mixer so they can hear themselves will be a challenge. I don't want to end up being lumbered with buying (and transporting) all the gear, which has happened before. I am not doing that again! We've come up with the idea of "hot rod" sticks (the sticks that aren't quite brushes) and he's used them before in another band (I played in that too) so perhaps that might help. With the electronic kit, I now recall playing a gig years ago with him and he said "do you have a spare PA monitor so I can hear myself?". I suspect I may have more issues than volume to contend with if they won't get the right gear.... Actually, in another band the drummer bought a powered monitor and turned up with just that and demanded "I WANT YOU ALL THROUGH THAT!" without any thought of how on earth we'd feed all our equipment into it, and without bringing any cables at all. I despair. I think as someone said above, playing quieter only lasts for about 10 seconds so I'll see how it goes next practice and consider leaving after that. Tinnitus and hearing loss is not a joke. The thread has been very informative, pity it's a common problem really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1436811086' post='2821039'] I wasn't going to quote the entire thread. It's there to read. I had assumed you were using sarcasm in that quote. This thread serves as another real world example of exactly the points you were refuting. There are drummers and guitarists and bands who play too loudly and are seeming unaware of their volume. [/quote] And I did not at any time suggest that "these people do not exist any more". What I said was that there weren't nearly so many of them as you were claiming. Not the same thing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 You can't beat this, the problem is squarely at their door. So just cut your losses before tehy include any more of your hearing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yep walk away or sack them both. If the singer is any good take him / her with you. People who argue reasons for being really loud, no matter what they play, will never get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 [quote name='sarah thomas' timestamp='1436793769' post='2820775'] Just tried the hearing test Phil Starr put a link to [url="http://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/your-hearing/look-after-your-hearing/check-your-hearing/take-the-check.aspx"]http://www.actiononh...-the-check.aspx[/url] and thought my headphones were broken at first. The test checks one ear and then the other. Despite my idiocy, my hearing seems to be okay for my age. Thanks Phil. [/quote] Yeah, I was worried the first time as I thought you had to get them all right, but it takes you down to the point where you can't hear then back up and down again to stop you from getting a false result. Jealous of the 'proper' bass every time I see one. It's actually slightly shocking to see how many people have responded to this thread, it's clearly a really widespread problem. Fortunately our drummer though loud is also really sensible and amenable to putting things right. Even so I'm wearing plugs for practices. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alpine-MusicSafe-Filter-Plugs-Musicians/dp/B000VO8PR0 and trying one plug for gigs. Can't get used to the 'cut off from the band' feeling you get yet but I guess that'll come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) I experience this phenomena and have done/do with guitarists as well. With the drumming the issue for ears is with the high frequencies particularly (as far as ear safety goes). I have watched this situation with interest over periods of time and have developed several theories:- 1) too loud anything is usually caused by people whose hearing is suspect 2) people whose hearing is suspect don't hear higher frequencies properly so complain the bass is too loud and/or compensate by having an excruciatingly raucous tone or volume or both. 3) different instrumentalists/singers hear music in their own way - I will give you an example - the band I play in sometimes provides music by iPod in between sets - through the PA and generally at normal PA volume - when returning to play it's not unusual for the band to play along with the last bit of the final track of the interlude - all is well and beautifully mixed until the guitarist joins in who summarily drowns the entire band and the music track - does he hear music that way - ie it is only the guitar?? The problem is that is the volume he will play at so the entire band ratchets up to match it - meaning the band is excruciatingly loud at the start. 4) I was sat talking in the audience between sets during a gig of the band at 3) when the guitarist played a few notes having changed a string - it was truly ear shatteringly uncomfortable - if I'd been a punter I would not have stayed 5) I once played in a band with an elderly guitar player whose hearing really was shattered through a lifetime of gigs and I believe one incident with a PA contributed greatly - anyway he regularly moaned that the bass was too loud - he was so concerned about this he bought a radio device so he could stand at the back of the room at sound check and be assured the mix was ok - he was stunned that the sound in the audience area was well balanced - however the root cause - that he heard no treble and a heightened version frequencies at the bass end was not resolved - that band had a seemingly raucous guitar sound which led to people leaving gigs - it was also compounded by a singer who's idea of 50s Echo was to submerge his voice in slap back echo and reverb. So two issues there - hearing problems and perception problems - they are extremely audible on recordings made. So what's the answer to all this - and to the OPs problem - well comments about people's volumes generally creates defensiveness and denial and bad feeling - unless you entrust the job to someone independent - eg a sound engineer. My own problem is not being able to hear myself if people play too loud - and if I can't I'm pretty damned sure other band members can't as well. However the bass sound carries and the result is being too loud at the back of the room. Our (sometimes loud) drummer moaned at our guitarist at a recent band meeting - to paraphrase - for having an unmixed sound the direction from which it originated being obvious to the audience. The drummer was asked about his volume at times (he is very good at lowering his volume to create dynamics but tends to drum louder when the band get louder) - his response was he's not s jazz drummer! Which is a lie because he can play jazz admirably. A complex issue involving personalities, perceptions and even physical issues (hearing). Sometimes it's good for someone to say - we re too bloody loud - turn down!! Edited July 15, 2015 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Having suffered from problems onstage with levels of instruments including drums, we got round the issue by inviting a friend down to the pub who is a sound engineer. Sat him half way down the room with the mixer, and asked him to make us sound better. This involved him asking the drummer to play quieter, which is partly what I suspected was the problem. We noted the new settings on the desk, and all agreed to adhere to his advice. The result? Onstage levels so much better (have n't needed earplugs since!) and lots of regular punters commenting how much better it is offstage too. Sometimes getting advice from someone you respect who is not involved in the band is the answer methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) [quote name='casapete' timestamp='1436951394' post='2822227'] Sometimes getting advice from someone you respect who is not involved in the band is the answer methinks. [/quote] I think this is the nub of it. Of course they won't be there every gig but it is useful to do it at some point and then take that on board as building block to work from when you do it yourself later. My new band did this the first time we rehearsed with all our own backline and PA (previous rehearsals were in gear provided rooms though the 2 guitarists take their own combo's). I didn't know the guy they invited (the other 3 had all played together before so I was the 'new boy' in a way) but importantly they trusted his judgement. And one of the first things he said was 'The guitar's too loud' Edited July 15, 2015 by KevB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 We had one particular guitarist who was habitually very loud (he'd start quietish, then turn up and up), because he complained he couldn't hear himself. Got a tilt back stand, pointed his combo at his head...he turned down straight away... Drummers, tho...if they're any good, they'll have more than one volume. And vice versa... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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