Weststarx Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thanks for all the comments guys, it's massively encouraging and I really appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The only thing is be realistic about how much money you'll likely earn and what you want.. By the time you are 30, 10 years in a dull old job might reap other dividends and be a completely different job. Music has always been about how good you are or how lucky you are if you want to make waves. I know some very talented players and most can't afford a mortgage.... and the one thing you want, IMO..30 years down the line is a paid-off mortgage.. I think you can try it for a couple of years but mostly these opportunities come to you rather than you finding them..? I'm not sure you can just decide to do it..and it will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 With respect to some of the posts above, the paid up mortgage scenario is something people in the UK seem to strive for all their lives. Being happy in who you are and what you do is often overlooked just to call a tiny piece of the country your own. In Europe and the US this scenario is frequently not the be-all and end-all for people from all walks of life. Just sayin..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 [quote name='casapete' timestamp='1437055597' post='2823230'] With respect to some of the posts above, the paid up mortgage scenario is something people in the UK seem to strive for all their lives. Being happy in who you are and what you do is often overlooked just to call a tiny piece of the country your own. In Europe and the US this scenario is frequently not the be-all and end-all for people from all walks of life. Just sayin..... [/quote] Property prices can be very different, too. Our humble cottage cost a grand total of £6000, 30 years ago. Not much mortgage needed for that kind of money. Of course, we don't yet have running hot water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Maybe OT but since our pensions system is wrecked and the current generation will likely be amongst the last to enjoy decent living into retirement...depending on your pension, of course, And depending on what your standards need to be but I wont need to work very hard when I retire to make ends meet because I wont have a £1k a month going out in rent. The old age time bomb as is can not be sustained so altho many pensioners are reasonably well off at the moment, I can't see it lasting. This is why the Government HAS to help people buy their homes as they will need that capital asset to pay for their care. The housing benefit bill is huge and people are living longer... and it is when you consider economics like that, that you know the system is bust ... IMO. Time for another topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 If you want to make a living out of music then making those moves now as a young guy with minimal existing financial and family commitments is the right time, but you need a plan past just "going on a tour". I left a secure (ish) job at 28 with a baby and another on the way to work as a freelance musician and sound engineer. I'd already been doing tons of freelance work alongside the day job though, was already playing in a busy function band and had enough friends and contacts from being involved in the local music scene for over a decade to be able to pick up some work. I'm three years in and still perennially skint and struggling but getting there. I think another year of hard graft will get me to a more stable place, it's getting there! I've only got through it by having multiple sources of income though. I play with a couple of regular bands and dep with others as a bassist and guitarist, as well as doing occasional acoustic gigs etc. I work as a freelance live engineer in local venues and PA companies and also in corporate event production as a tech and occasional production manager, have backline teched, tour managed and crewed for bands, hire out my own PA gear, have assembled and MDd bands for theatre and various other endeavours. Other guys I know do a lot of teaching to get by. If one thing goes quiet I can lean on another. If I was just depending on one I'd probably have been f***ed a long time ago. I also have a very supportive partner with a stable full time job, which of course makes a world of difference. Do it, but do it with your head screwed on about the harsh reality of not knowing when your next invoice will get paid, and knowing that sometimes you'll be sat looking at an empty diary and wondering how you're going to pay next months rent! I love it but it's a constant challenge and not for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) If you can afford to miss out out on other career developement whilst you are doing it and it's a personal dream to live the life on the road then, at 22, it's worth having a shot at. Definitely have a back up plan if things don't quite go as you were hoping though. Lots of very good musicians around who do it for a lot of years but end up with, on the whole, quite moderate standards of living. I've told this before but a guy I've got matey with over the last 6 or 7 years is about my age, been gigging since his teens. One of the best all round muso's I've worked with (great on guitar, v good on bass, better than average on drums and also plays a bit of keys, v good singer). Played at pub/club level, theatre sized gigs and larger, backed some known name artists. I've gone the non music related college route, got into music relatively late but haven't had a stellar career in my field either, ending up as a moderately paid lab technician. It just happens in 2007 I moved to the area in which this guy grew up. We got chatting about my house I moved into, prices etc. He was absolutely categorical that though he would love to move back to the area he could not afford it on what he brings in from regular gigging and the one to one music lessons he gives in between gigs and he's done a music degree in later years to add some academic weight to his qualifications to give the lessons. Some guys obviously make a good living without being household names but I'll wager there are a lot that don't. Edited July 21, 2015 by KevB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'd never be able to afford to do it now (got a 30-year chain around my neck) but back when I was younger & a proper opportunity (ie real tour) came along I'd have jumped at it. Other than the mortgage, the problem is now that that being a musician (I don't include teaching earnings in this) just doesn't pay that well - I only have a mediocre office job but I'd have to be in a seriously recognizable/famous/successful band to earn more than I do currently. Depends what you want really - I have a boring office job but it pays for me to do fun things like music, if you do fun things like music as your job you'll obviously enjoy it way more but it probably won't leave you much time or money to do other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dapper Bandit Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 If you can make it work then there is no reason not to as you are young enough to bounce back if it doesn't pan out (which it might) or to properly reap the rewards if it goes excellently (which it might not). That said it is important to go into this sort of thing with expectations in order, the industry has changed massively and the way things played out historically are just that. The chances of you being picked up by a major label and doing stadium tours to support your second album are slimmer than a very slim thing. On the other hand, the chance of you carving out a survivable niche for yourself are probably better than ever before. For further reading have a look into Steve Albini's current interviews/keynote speeches as well as his essay "The Problem With The Music Industry". Two examples from the world of rock/metal: 1) Mastodon, who are signed to Warner Brothers and are one of the largest 'current' metal bands on the scene often have to work construction jobs between tours 2)The Melvins, who have been an independent band since their formation some 25-odd years ago (bar a 3 album deal with Atlantic in the 90's) are full time musicians but have gone on record as being "thousandaires" and having to work as hard as any other professional/tradesman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dand666 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 [quote name='casapete' timestamp='1437055597' post='2823230'] With respect to some of the posts above, the paid up mortgage scenario is something people in the UK seem to strive for all their lives. Being happy in who you are and what you do is often overlooked just to call a tiny piece of the country your own. In Europe and the US this scenario is frequently not the be-all and end-all for people from all walks of life. Just sayin..... [/quote] This. I left a well paid office job, just after I got my degree in Computer Science to further my career in music. I was 24. Now I'm working on cruise ships, seeing the world and getting paid for it. Best thing I ever did. Try not to think about everyone else and what they're doing. Plenty of time for that. Personally I couldn't handle the office environment. Now I spend my days on a beach and in the evening playing some sweet music. Life's what you make it. Music is hard work, but the old cliche of having to never work a day in your life if you love your job is true. Your 22, give it a go for a few years, if you don't like it. Plenty of time to to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 [quote name='dand666' timestamp='1437564801' post='2827051'] This. I left a well paid office job, just after I got my degree in Computer Science to further my career in music. I was 24. Now I'm working on cruise ships, seeing the world and getting paid for it. Best thing I ever did. Try not to think about everyone else and what they're doing. Plenty of time for that. Personally I couldn't handle the office environment. Now I spend my days on a beach and in the evening playing some sweet music. Life's what you make it. Music is hard work, but the old cliche of having to never work a day in your life if you love your job is true. Your 22, give it a go for a few years, if you don't like it. Plenty of time to to change. [/quote] Some people live for today and some live for tomorrow. I think you're the former and I'm the latter. I don't particularly enjoy my job most days. I wish I could be more like you but I'm in too deep, life's too comfortable and I can't imagine being skint. I've worked out a way to retire at 60 with a reasonable pension and savings - just counting down the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weststarx Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 [quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1437567594' post='2827093'] Some people live for today and some live for tomorrow. I think you're the former and I'm the latter. I don't particularly enjoy my job most days. I wish I could be more like you but I'm in too deep, life's too comfortable and I can't imagine being skint. I've worked out a way to retire at 60 with a reasonable pension and savings - just counting down the years. [/quote] This is my trouble, I want the 'You only live once attitude' towards life, but I am very comfortable where I am at the moment. It would easier if I had nothing to lose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lw. Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 [quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1437567594' post='2827093'] Some people live for today and some live for tomorrow. I think you're the former and I'm the latter. I don't particularly enjoy my job most days. I wish I could be more like you but I'm in too deep, life's too comfortable and I can't imagine being skint. I've worked out a way to retire at 60 with a reasonable pension and savings - just counting down the years. [/quote] This is pretty much my problem too. RE the whole housing thing in the UK - the issue is for anyone under the age of about 45 in this country; if you don't own your house by the time you hit pension age you will be in serious financial trouble. Our rental markets & social care are not the same as other countries that have the relaxed attitude people seem to be referring to & the way our current government are going about things means it's only going to get worse (especially as the opposition are fading into obscurity). For someone in their early twenties now then a few years here or there trying to be a professional musician & so having low(ish) earnings is absolutely fine but the longer you stay out of the property game, the further you have to make up. For example, in the last year & a bit that I have owned my current home its real market value has gone up by (coincidentally) your average low-level office job salary - there's no way I could afford to save that kind of money in the same period, if I had left it & tried to buy a house now I wouldn't be able to afford the house & would have had to look at a smaller house or worse area, which is something of a feat given that I live in a tiny 2-up-2-down terrace in a not great area of a kind of rough town. Now I'm not trying to scare people off - as people have proven; being a professional musician is great, just don't forget that at some point in the future you're going to want to sit down & relax preferably with a roof over your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) When I was in my late teens the band I was with had a couple of close shaves with getting a recording deal and both times we got showcase gigs and did loads of recording of our original tracks. However nothing became of it. So I continued with my day job and all that goes with it and still playing in band s in the evenings. In later years as I said in an earlier posting I got the chance to do some touring with a well known reggae band for about 3 months in the east/west coast of USA. That was a fantastic experience because the band was and still is really well known in the states most of the gigs were at great venues. Then in the mid 2000's between 2004 and 2007 I did loads of touring taking in UK, Europe, USA, Canada, and Asia with another two reggae artistes and those times I was still working full time in a day job and was able to agree the time off to pursue that. My point to the original poster is be sure that's what you really want to do and if you have nothing to lose, or are in a position where you have financial resources to cover the lean times, a supportive partner or family and you are honest with yourself about your ability to sustain a job as a musician full time, I would say it's worth taking the gamble because you are still young enough to do something about it and there are arguably more additional opportunities these days for musicians off stage too. A few of my mates have gone pro in their mid 40's and are still working musicians. It helps that they are married with supportive partners so things like paying bills and keeping a roof over their heads are covered. However they also have to do loads of bread and butter function/corporate gigs that they do not enjoy as much as regular gigs but they pay a lot lot better. Another mate went pro straight out of university having completed his music degree and was a pit musician with a touring theatre for a few years and amongst other things is now a regular session player at Abbey Road. As we all know, the music business is notoriously fickle and difficult to make it and it's hard to know if, when a good opportunity arises, if it will be the first of many, it will be the only one you ever get or the best one you will ever get. I was fortunate to get the opportunities I have and I'm happy where I am now which is combining work and music. Edited July 23, 2015 by jazzyvee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) At your age, change your lifestyle as soon as you can. Jobs come and go. I've mainly been in bands that write their own music, and being 'technically' superb wasn't an issue...song writing and being a tight solid unit was the aim. I've met plenty of very technical and well trained musicians, but they have no flair or willingness to be a little more creative. I'd sit on the side of being damn good at playing whatever is thrown at me, but I have no desire to be technically superb or learn everything about music theory. It depends what type of band you want to be in. I rate song writing and creativity over someone who sits and slaps out a bass solo. For the record, I've spent years training in law only to find that: A) the money is pretty awful and respect for lawyers has dropped since I began to train and B ) if I could, I would leave the career and work in something more exciting. At the end of the day, going into a 'safe' career which promises you will reap rewards (both professionally and financially) is not always what you expect. Edited July 23, 2015 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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