rhythmbug Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Pretty rudimentary question here but one that is really bugging me. Is it just me or are audio interfaces generally not very bass friendly? I seldom get a decent volume from the signal compared to other instruments such as guitar. My current interface is a Roland Quad Capture but I had this issue with previous interfaces as well. I get into clipping territory very quickly and the recorded waveforms are very narrow in girth with little to no transients at all. Meanwhile, the guitar waveforms are full and with loads of volume. How I've been getting around it up to now is using VSTs to boost the bass volume, but in principle I feel this is just turd polishing. Why does the clipping LED on interfaces light up when the waveform of a bass signal is so meagre and anemic? How can I record a more full bodied signal, or is this just not possible with bass? Bass - Warwick Corvette with EMG pre Chain - pedalboard + Para driver direct out (balanced XLR) Interface - Roland Quad Capture DAW - iMac Software - Ableton 9 Cheers Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What happens if you just go direct in with you bass, bypassing all the pedal? Do you still have the same issue. I have no problems with Basses--> with/without pedals ---> Focusrite Scarlett --> iMac & Logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 My 'go to' bass, a passive Hofner Verithin, has quite the opposite effect with my Tascam US-144. I have to turn the bass down quite a bit to avoid overloading, but the tone is retained. How is your bass EQ set..? All flat..? With an active, you may have to be careful with the use of bass boost. Have you tried mic'ing your amp..? How does that compare, tonally..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If you have the clipping light on then you are getting a decent volume. Why do you think you aren't? Is it because you just don't hear it well, in which case, maybe your monitoring that is the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I had a Quad Capture in the past. My version had a software compressor and a limiter. (On the software control panel). http://www.rolandus.com/community/roland_users_group/1500 If they are turned on, it might be the problem. Your input signal might be hot, but what is going into your DAW might be quite a reduced db level, with little or no transients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) [quote name='rhythmbug' timestamp='1437142411' post='2823990'] I get into clipping territory very quickly and the recorded waveforms are very narrow in girth with little to no transients at all. [/quote] Bass is very heavy in low frequency content which means it has low energy (perceptible volume) for a given wave amplitude. All recording signal paths are limited by amplitude so the apparent volume of the bass will be low. You will probably have to rethink the pickup/control settings on your instrument for recording vs live so as to feed in a much less bass heavy signal. Edited July 24, 2015 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I don't consider low input volumes to be too much of an issue. In fact, I regularly record at -6 to -8db and put a gain boost on the track in my DAW. I used to record hot (i.e. just in the yellow bit of clipping) and the sound quality was pretty poor, had little headroom and if I clipped into the red it would distort. This blog post explains it: http://therecordingrevolution.com/2014/02/12/stop-recording-so-hot-into-your-daw/ and this older one too http://therecordingrevolution.com/2010/10/25/are-you-recording-too-hot/ (also he's got loads of good advice on his site - well worth a read). Recording at 24 bit gives you 144db of dynamic range he says and I read elsewhere that good, low noise preamps makes the signal to noise ration a non-issue. The preamps in my Focusrite Forte are very good for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1439120620' post='2840131'] I regularly record at -6 to -8db and put a gain boost on the track in my DAW. [/quote] Same here. Compression makes a difference too. Also if I'm adding bass to drums I just turn the drums down while I'm tracking the bass just so I can hear it. Then I'll put the bass on it's own channel for mixing and may add a hint of distortion just to add warmth and depending on the material I may even add a touch more compression, then EQ out anything below around 80Hz (depending on where the kick is EQ'd) and above 8kHz as it's mainly just sucking up bandwidth to no effect. I'll also merge stereo so it's bang in the middle of the stereo image along with the kick. Edited August 9, 2015 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1439120620' post='2840131'] I don't consider low input volumes to be too much of an issue. In fact, I regularly record at -6 to -8db and put a gain boost on the track in my DAW. I used to record hot (i.e. just in the yellow bit of clipping) and the sound quality was pretty poor, had little headroom and if I clipped into the red it would distort. This blog post explains it: [url="http://therecordingrevolution.com/2014/02/12/stop-recording-so-hot-into-your-daw/"]http://therecordingr...-into-your-daw/[/url] and this older one too [url="http://therecordingrevolution.com/2010/10/25/are-you-recording-too-hot/"]http://therecordingr...ording-too-hot/[/url] (also he's got loads of good advice on his site - well worth a read). Recording at 24 bit gives you 144db of dynamic range he says and I read elsewhere that good, low noise preamps makes the signal to noise ration a non-issue. The preamps in my Focusrite Forte are very good for this. [/quote] Same lesson learned here plus direct in (MXR, have yet to try Sansamp VT) with a touch of post recording compression as mentioned by Discreet and I get results that I am more than happy with for minimal effort . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhythmbug Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hey Guys Thanks for all your input (pardon the pun) [i][b]Lowdown[/b][/i] hit the nail on the head, it was being primarily caused by Roland's compression software that was running in the background. Once I switched that off, freedom! One other thing that helped was cranking the volume on my Paradriver way up and then using the interface's volume knob to fine tune only. So now I'm completely bypassing the software compression, but using a compressor in my chain of effects, balanced DI and then some post-recording compression to smooth out the processed EQ tweaks. Very satisfied with the sound and strength of the signal now. To the Focusrite users, I did own one and agree it is great for recording bass, but the 2i2 is lousy for high output guitars like Les Pauls, it I found it nearly impossible to prevent it from clipping, it has too much gain, really needs a pad. Which is why I bought the Roland. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Wow, thanks for the tip - this has just made a huge difference to another beginner Quad Capture user. Nice one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Good stuff folks, glad it all worked out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1439405081' post='2842591'] Good stuff folks, glad it all worked out! [/quote] Expect a deluge of "now how the heck do I do ...." type questions from now on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Firstly always record in 24bit - the headroom is more than your device's analogue headroom. Then routinely track (record) with at least 6dB of headroom above the highest peak you see. When tracking drums I routinely leave 8 to 12dB because drummers can easily get over excited and the volume difference can be crazy - same with bass). That way you can be sure you aren#t pushing the analogue side of the device too hard, or even close to clipping. Most cheaper devices have pretty average (at best) mic pres and input circuitry in general, you do not want to get close to overloading them at all, and you don't want them to adversely effect any transients. Then in your DAW use either a gain plugin in and/or some compression or whatever else you feel you need to tame dynamic range and bring the level up on your terms. I guarantee your mixes will sound better just working this way..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1439416716' post='2842795'] I guarantee your mixes will sound better just working this way..... [/quote] Mine certainly did - especially with my bass. You can just hear the tone like you couldn't before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 What I used to do if one of the guitar tracks was sounding a bit "weak" was copy it onto another track, so you're basically "double tracking" it. Pan one channel slightly left, the other slightly right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 [quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1439988929' post='2847292'] What I used to do if one of the guitar tracks was sounding a bit "weak" was copy it onto another track, so you're basically "double tracking" it. Pan one channel slightly left, the other slightly right. [/quote] This exactly. Works excellently for bass. You can set one track low and rumbly and the other sharp and clear so you get the best of both meeting in the middle somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1439988929' post='2847292'] What I used to do if one of the guitar tracks was sounding a bit "weak" was copy it onto another track, so you're basically "double tracking" it. Pan one channel slightly left, the other slightly right. [/quote] All this is actually doing is turning the track up by about 6dB. Its not the same as double tracking at all because there are no microscopic differences in timing and pitch which you get with true double tracking (and what gives it the big sound). If you can find a delay which can have its delay time modulated slightly (easy in Reaper), set it to 3 or 4ms delay and the modulation at between 0ms and 6ms over half a second to a second, slip the copied track early by 3ms and output the wet only on the copied track, then you get something closer to real double tracking.... Edited August 26, 2015 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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