Boss pedals and 'snobbery'

[Musicman20]

When I first started bass and had friends with awful first guitars/10W solid state practice guitar amps, Boss pedals and Zoom pedals were used a lot. They sounded, from what I remember of that time, ropey. Now, I've bought quite a lot of the guitar related Boss pedals, and you know what, they are just as good (if not build better) than some of the boutique pedals costing 3-4 times more. There isn't the same avoidance around EHX pedals, but they are equally as good value. Just lately I've been looking at Boss bass pedals, like the BB-1X, and they sound fantastic. Is it possible that our first years with crap equipment led us to believe that the poor old Boss pedals weren't that great purely due to the poor amps and guitars/basses we had? Sorry - I can't add line spaces/new paragraphs for some reason!

[Lozz196]

More than likely. You see a good few pros using Boss pedals on their live pedalboards, if they`re good enough for them, gotta be good enough for us.

[Sibob]

I dunno, I think plenty of people still use plenty of Boss pedals, they make some great stuff.

I think they were hurt for a bit when the whole ridiculous 'True Bypass Or Die' ethos was prevalent, however that doesn't really seem to be the case anymore.
I think a number of bass players snubbed them due to their lack of a decent drive/distortion pedal, the ODB-3 is horrible, although some people love it, it also has some decent mods available that seem to make it sound decent. The new BB-1X sounds alright, but it's still not that inspiring. It came out at the same time as the MXR Bass Distortion, and that was way more appealing!

That said, I love my OC-2, VB-2, TU-2, DM-3 and many others.

Ultimately, who cares if they're snubbed (makes them cheaper 2nd hand), if it sounds good, it is good!

Si

[dannybuoy]

They are the most recognised pedal brand, and for a while, their only 'bass overdrive' pedal was a nasty (in a good way) distortion pedal. So new bassists bought ODB3s in their droves looking for mild 'overdrive' only to be disappointed, then start researching their options to upgrade from their Boss pedal. So a lot of bassists now have a built-in dislike for Boss pedals. They've come out with the BB1-X now, but it's a bit crap, I sold mine after playing with it for only 5 minutes. Still have my ODB-3 though, not much can touch it for sheer brutality!

They have some decent pedals, but many have drawbacks and aren't the top pick in their respective categories. I see them as mostly mediocre, with a few exceptions that are classics.

[tonyquipment]

Boss all day long.

Although I kind of like the cheap crappy pedals too. Noisy nasty grimey for them lofi sounds.

[paul_5]

Horses for courses. Their TU2 or 3 tuners are pretty much ubiquitous, and the (sadly discontinued) OC2 is one of the best pedals ever made. I don't really rate their bass stuff (CEB-3 and ODB-3 I'm looking at you), but the SD-1 and OD1 guitar pedals are brilliant.

[Sibob]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1438117278' post='2831871']
Horses for courses. Their TU2 or 3 tuners are pretty much ubiquitous, and the (sadly discontinued) OC2 is one of the best pedals ever made. I don't really rate their bass stuff (CEB-3 and ODB-3 I'm looking at you), but the SD-1 and OD1 guitar pedals are brilliant.
[/quote]

The CEB-3 is a bit uninspiring, but the the older CE-2B is great, especially with the Fromel mod!

Si

[Cameronj279]

I still think the DD-3 is by far the best delay pedal I've ever tried.

None of their other pedals have done anything for me however. Not through a snobbery. They've just been a bit bland sounding.

[Sibob]

I think it's because they stayed away from weird and wonderful (like mid-DOD (Gonkulator etc) and a lot of boutique brands now) and simply went for solid, functional sounds. No, the OD-2 or CE-2 pedals aren't exciting, but they're on more boards than any Keeley or Walrus Audio pedal, purely because they were the first to mass-develop these little boxes that we love, and they nailed the basic sounds that get you through a gig.

Simply put, you go and watch a critically acclaimed noise band where you're very aware of the strange and impressive sounds, they'll probably not use much Boss.....you make an association there. With that said, even a band like Tera Melos always have 4 or 5 Boss pedals each, and they sound weeeiriirrdddd.

You go and watch any massive act where all that is needed is basic and solid effects, bet there's more Boss than you'd expect

Si

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1438164201' post='2832143']
I think it's because they stayed away from weird and wonderful (like mid-DOD (Gonkulator etc) and a lot of boutique brands now) and simply went for solid, functional sounds. No, the OD-2 or CE-2 pedals aren't exciting, but they're on more boards than any Keeley or Walrus Audio pedal, purely because they were the first to mass-develop these little boxes that we love, and they nailed the basic sounds that get you through a gig.

Simply put, you go and watch a critically acclaimed noise band where you're very aware of the strange and impressive sounds, they'll probably not use much Boss.....you make an association there. With that said, even a band like Tera Melos always have 4 or 5 Boss pedals each, and they sound weeeiriirrdddd.

You go and watch any massive act where all that is needed is basic and solid effects, bet there's more Boss than you'd expect

Si
[/quote]

Yes, agree with the above.

The new RV-6 shimmer mode and the new delay unit DD-500 sound/look amazing...!

I've recently tried and bought the Waza pedals and the DM-2W is a fantastic bit of kit. I've barely had time with the other two but initial impressions are great (guitar related).

I'm impressed the OC-3 has guitar and bass inputs...might give one a go.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Musicman20

[RandomBass]

After having gone around the houses trying various alternatives, I've ended up back with my trusty LMB-3. Has the necessary controls (although Enhance is either off or set very low), and perfect threshold range - and what's not to like about a Ratio which goes from unity up to infinity?
Tonally I have no complaints - whether its a light limiting or a heavy clamp-down effect.

[Ghost_Bass]

I've chosen my pedals (see sig) with a specific sound in mind and none of the Boss can take a place on my board. They're not bad and they do sound nice but not as good as what i have on the board ATM.

The true bypass issue is a big deal for me, i power my pedals with a psu and if it fails i just have to turn all switches off and keep playing the song.

[Sibob]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1438179548' post='2832316']
I've chosen my pedals (see sig) with a specific sound in mind and none of the Boss can take a place on my board. They're not bad and they do sound nice but not as good as what i have on the board ATM.

The true bypass issue is a big deal for me, i power my pedals with a psu and if it fails i just have to turn all switches off and keep playing the song.
[/quote]

I'd argue that your reasoning for having true bypass isn't necessarily what all the fuss was about. But still, you're probably doing yourself out of some good pedals (not just Boss that are buffered, the Darkglass B7K isn't true bypass for example) when all you need is a small true bypass looper in a 1590a enclosure. Means you can have a single input/output point on your pedal board for your bass and amp, if your pedals die, simply hit the switch and you're direct to your amp.

The issue with true bypass is that if you have a lot of pedals, you're simply adding the amount of cabling in-between all those pedals to the total distance between your bass and your amp, which can lead to tone & signal loss (if you're using a lot of true bypass pedals). Stick a buffered pedal somewhere in the equation and it effectively resets the distance between the bass and the amp from that pedal (if that makes sense). Which is why you see guys with all true bypass pedal boards with little 1590a boutique buffers (because they obviously desperately need a true bypass tuner and a boutique buffer and not a Boss TU-2 lol)

Si

[project_c]

I'm not an fx guy at all, but I almost always have the Boss LMB3 limiter on when practicing / going direct to an audio interface, it's the only pedal I've used for years. It stops my signal from clipping and allows me to play dynamically without worrying about huge jumps in volume. This pedal has a weird reputation, and people are usually not very nice about it. The fact is it's a utility rather than a special effect, so people who don't know what it does are normally disappointed by it. It won't make your bass sound better or worse in any way, it will just bring the jumpy dynamics under control.

The 'Enhance' function gets the most complaints, it's a high-freq boost / exciter, so at the highest settings it adds some hiss to the signal, but that's just what happens when you boost those frequencies. At medium settings it's pretty nice. I normally just leave it on zero. Probably the least sexy pedal Boss has ever come up with, but for me it's invaluable, and it cost me about £25 used.

[Zenitram]

It's a bit big for me.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1438181535' post='2832344']
I'd argue that your reasoning for having true bypass isn't necessarily what all the fuss was about. But still, you're probably doing yourself out of some good pedals (not just Boss that are buffered, the Darkglass B7K isn't true bypass for example) when all you need is a small true bypass looper in a 1590a enclosure. Means you can have a single input/output point on your pedal board for your bass and amp, if your pedals die, simply hit the switch and you're direct to your amp.

The issue with true bypass is that if you have a lot of pedals, you're simply adding the amount of cabling in-between all those pedals to the total distance between your bass and your amp, which can lead to tone & signal loss (if you're using a lot of true bypass pedals). Stick a buffered pedal somewhere in the equation and it effectively resets the distance between the bass and the amp from that pedal (if that makes sense). Which is why you see guys with all true bypass pedal boards with little 1590a boutique buffers (because they obviously desperately need a true bypass tuner and a boutique buffer and not a Boss TU-2 lol)

Si
[/quote]

I have no need for a buffer, the less pedals in the board the better, and my bass has more than enough output for the signal to survive the journey and still clip the amp/mixer
It also helps that i use quality cables and plugs.

Regarding the B7K, i don't need another preamp, i have one on the bass, that paired with the pan pot and right hand positioning give me all the EQ i need. The B3K is perfect for what i need it to do.

[Musicman20]

All that true bypass/buffer/etc doesn't really affect me. I just don't pay it any attention.

[Sibob]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1438247548' post='2832800']
I have no need for a buffer, the less pedals in the board the better, and my bass has more than enough output for the signal to survive the journey and still clip the amp/mixer
It also helps that i use quality cables and plugs.

Regarding the B7K, i don't need another preamp, i have one on the bass, that paired with the pan pot and right hand positioning give me all the EQ i need. The B3K is perfect for what i need it to do.
[/quote]

I wasn't suggesting that you need the B7K , simply that it's not just mass produced Boss pedals with buffers. Some circuit designs simply require a buffer.
You're right, your setup isn't really effected by the true bypass issue, but lets take a guy with maybe 20 pedals on his board, using 3" patch cables between each of them. That's an extra 60" of cabling being added to the distance between the bass and amp. A buffered pedal will negate that if placed correctly in the chain.

Si

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1438252257' post='2832877']
I wasn't suggesting that you need the B7K , simply that it's not just mass produced Boss pedals with buffers. Some circuit designs simply require a buffer.
You're right, your setup isn't really effected by the true bypass issue, but lets take a guy with maybe 20 pedals on his board, using 3" patch cables between each of them. That's an extra 60" of cabling being added to the distance between the bass and amp. A buffered pedal will negate that if placed correctly in the chain.

Si
[/quote]

Sure, i understand what you're saying about the buffering.

I just want to clarify that it was the sound that made me choose this setup (B3 isn't on the board, it's a backup or used on smaller gigs/rehearsalls). It was a happy coincidence to end up with all TB.

Pitchblack vs TU2/3 - PB is about the same price, bigger screen, a tad better tracking.

MXR octave vs OC-2 - MXR has a more "natural"/"organic" sound, the Boss is too "synthy" for what i want to use it.

B3K vs ODB-3 - no explanation needed, is there?

3Leaf GR vs AW-3 - The 3Leaf sounds warmer, it doesn't peak or quack like the otehr filters i've tried (even the rest of 3Leaf product line is to quacky), the break up is lovely.

Multicomp vs LM-3 - The multicomp does a very light compression on my top end, removing the harshness of pops and fx, it doesn't mess with the dynamics, the LM tend to raise the volume when i play softer and smashes the sound when i dig deeper.

It's MY personal taste.

[Sibob]

Absolutely, I don't think anyone is calling anyones preferences into question, it's just that some people may be making those decisions based on the view that <Mr Mackie Voice> 'buffers are bad' </Mr Mackie Voice>, when that isn't true

Si

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1438253833' post='2832901']
Absolutely, I don't think anyone is calling anyones preferences into question, it's just that some people may be making those decisions based on the view that <Mr Mackie Voice> 'buffers are bad' </Mr Mackie Voice>, when that isn't true

Si
[/quote]

Yes, i remember, a long time ago (8-10 years!) came that fashion with the true-bypass and boutique pedals. At that time i must admit i got convinced with the TB arguments but technology evolves and buffered designs keep getting better and better. And, as you say, even the boutique manufacturers are going back to buffers.
Maybe in the future they start making buffered pedals with a mini-switch on the back to bypass the pedal in case of of a malfunction... but Boss pedals never break...

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1438252257' post='2832877']
-an extra 60" of cabling being added to the distance between the bass and amp. A buffered pedal will negate that if placed correctly in the chain.
[/quote]

That is the point i'd start taking much more notice!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1438254418' post='2832909']
... but Boss pedals never break...
[/quote]

It's almost as if I have this image in my head of what a guitar effects pedal is, and the first thought is the classic rock hard Boss design. I mean, for £39 or less, you get an SD-1 or DS-1, and used with a good amp, they are excellent pedals. Robust, easy, cool tones, and the SD-1 does a great job of pushing the front end.

Sorry - getting into guitar land now!

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

I do love the look of a few boss pedals in their pedalboard. Years ago ,in a blues band Mr. Guitar had that setup and it looked and sounded great.
I've gone for the rack versions of classic boss pedals ( boss micro br). I often wonder if I should swap for the pedal versions . I've got an overactive mind .

[JapanAxe]

Two of the stars of my skinny-string 'board are a Boss DM3 analog delay (unbeatable for slap-back), and a [true bypass] clone of the CE2 chorus (the only chorus I ever loved, or even liked for that matter).

The buffered/true bypass thing is a whole thread website in itself, but it's worth mentioning that if you run several Boss pedals on your board, you will lose an appreciable amount of bottom end, noticeable even on a skinny-string!

Edited July 30, 2015 by JapanAxe