colgraff Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Re Hero Worship and musical influence. I saw New Model Army, David Bowie and Metallica in their glory years and those events certainly shaped my desire to play and style of playing. Not least because all three were in relatively small venues, so I could get close to the bassists and watch them (Gail Ann Dorsey, I still love you!!!) while absorbing the band as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Howard Goodall (born 1958 so maybe slightly young to be allowed an opinion but anyway ...) [media]http://youtu.be/ZQS91wVdvYc[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1440625921' post='2852575'] And Bolan, Bowie, Slade and The Sweet were all influenced by the Beatles. IMHO, you had an interest in The Beatles, but you didn't know it. This is the point I have been trying to make to many that weren't there. Blue [/quote] Yeah, but so what? *channelling my 13 year old self* TBH everyone is influenced by everything they hear in both wanting to be like the bands they like and not wanting to be like the bands they don't like. I'm sure that I have been influenced by The Beatles over the years but to me they are no more or less important as an influence then the 1000s of over bands that I have heard in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) There were very few bands that I listened to, when first getting serious about music, that took much, if anything, from the Beatles. In my formative years I started by listening to 50's rock'n'roll and stuff Teddy boys would have listened to. From that I went to blues and r&b and from there to punk. For my musical development they're a bit player. And for the younger folk of today the Beatles have near no influence at all...not with regards to hip hop and contemporary R&B which seems to be their thing. Edited August 27, 2015 by Marvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1440672208' post='2852815'] There were very few bands that I listened to, when first getting serious about music, that took much, if anything, from the Beatles. In my formative years I started by listening to 50's rock'n'roll and stuff Teddy boys would have listened to. From that I went to blues and r&b and from there to punk. [/quote] Punk? Snappy, high-energy songs played at breakneck pace in packed, grubby venues by amphetamine-fuelled kids. That sounds strangely familiar :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 The Howard Goodall video is a very interesting one. There are things that the Beatles did with the music around them that was more than just be influenced. The changed the game, the whole way music was constructed. New ways of harmonising chordal work etc. If you've ever played any Elton John songs and understood the chord changes then that's something that just wasn't around before the Beatles. It's very clever and I'm very surprised that 4 poor lads from Liverpool with no formal music qualification or education could have done that. Hence the George Martin link. Although Paul and John may well have just bought all their influences into a melting pot and played what they did without knowing why. According to the video there was a clear evolution of their songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operative451 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I think as a fully paid up member of Generation X, Boomers going on about the bee-attles is the same as their parents generation going on about 'the war'. Yeah we know. Yeah you were there, yeah it changed everything. Please stop going on about it now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I was born a few months too late to actually be defined as a Baby-Boomer, but I'm pretty sure you won't find a single one who has ever asked their parents to stop going on about the war -- we/they know that it was rather more important than four poorly-coiffed Scousers emerging from a 707. BTW, we now have two almost identical Beatles-based threads. so I'm closing the other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='Rich' timestamp='1440676235' post='2852864'] I was born a few months too late to actually be defined as a Baby-Boomer, but I'm pretty sure you won't find a single one who has ever asked their parents to stop going on about the war -- we/they know that it was rather more important than four poorly-coiffed Scousers emerging from a 707. BTW, we now have two almost identical Beatles-based threads. so I'm closing the other one. [/quote] The ones involved in the war didn't talk about it. But I take the point about the Beatles evangelism. Some people are the same about Fender basses. And with all Evangelism, the more you go on about something the less people will listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operative451 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well, i am specifically looking at my parents and their friends, who were, to be fair, dicks. I spent a lot of time with my grandparents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I think it is fair to say that the Beatles were so Omni-influential and widely accepted that it would be hard to find in the western world, modern or contemporary music that wasn't influenced directly or indirectly by the Beatles. I think to say that every band would list the Beatles as an influence would be stretching the theory however I think it reasonable that you could link every modern bands influences to the Beatles by 3 degrees of separation. I think the tsunami created by the Beatles was so far reaching that it left very little in its path unaffected, and anything that wasn't affected by the initial blast almost certainly got a bump from the after tremors. Anyone not accepting this as the truth is being stubborn and unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 For the record I wasn't there and I'm not particularly a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440674659' post='2852847'] The Howard Goodall video is a very interesting one. There are things that the Beatles did with the music around them that was more than just be influenced. The changed the game, the whole way music was constructed. New ways of harmonising chordal work etc. If you've ever played any Elton John songs and understood the chord changes then that's something that just wasn't around before the Beatles. It's very clever and I'm very surprised that 4 poor lads from Liverpool with no formal music qualification or education could have done that. Hence the George Martin link. Although Paul and John may well have just bought all their influences into a melting pot and played what they did without knowing why. According to the video there was a clear evolution of their songs. [/quote] Paul in particular was very keen on show tunes, where quite sophisticated harmony would be used. As well as other more advanced concepts (compared to early 1960s rock/pop) such as modulation to different keys that the Beatles used right from the start. Didn't Bob Dylan say that the chords that the Beatles used were outrageous. Have you seen Allan Pollock's "Notes On..." series analysing the Beatles' songs? [url="http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-beatles_projects.shtml"]http://www.icce.rug...._projects.shtml[/url] It's surprising how much there is going on in even the simple sounding early songs such as "Love Me Do", but in particular by the time of songs such as "Another Girl". Sounds, simple, but there are some tricky key changes in there. Edited August 27, 2015 by Annoying Twit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1440688962' post='2853011'] ... Didn't Bob Dylan say that the chords that the Beatles used were outrageous ... [/quote] I wouldn't be surprised at that but also I read somewhere that Roger McGuinn, pre-Byrds, was working for one of the songwriting companies in the Brill Building. His job was listen to hit songs on the radio, analyse them and so write another hit. Upon hearing The Beatles he was struck by their use of chords and chord progressions that were uncommon to most pop songs of the time. Story also has it that George Martin warned against certain chords and cadences - e.g. ending on a 6 chord - because they were so old-fashioned but the band just responded 'we think it sounds great'. Edited August 27, 2015 by EssentialTension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='the boy' timestamp='1440684200' post='2852947'] I think to say that every band would list the Beatles as an influence would be stretching the theory however I think it reasonable that you could link every modern bands influences to the Beatles by 3 degrees of separation. I think the tsunami created by the Beatles was so far reaching that it left very little in its path unaffected, and anything that wasn't affected by the initial blast almost certainly got a bump from the after tremors. [/quote] A view around which we all might unite. Though there might be some post-Beatlemania artistes whose Beatlefluences are less immediately detectable; Captain Beefheart springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440691162' post='2853040']...Captain Beefheart springs to mind. [/quote] Time to increase the med's dosage..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1440694011' post='2853071'] Time to increase the med's dosage..? [/quote] Where have [i]you[/i] been for the last while? I was concerned that you'd dropped off the twig or run away to sea or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440694471' post='2853082'] Where have [i]you[/i] been for the last while? I was concerned that you'd dropped off the twig or run away to sea or something. [/quote] Someone mentioned Beefheart. It sounds remarkably similar to Beetlejuice. Well, they both start with b anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440694471' post='2853082'] Where have [i]you[/i] been for the last while? I was concerned that you'd dropped off the twig or run away to sea or something. [/quote]Resting, old chum; resting. Still clutching stubbornly onto the twig, though, and the last person to see me run is not young. Very sporadic for the moment, but, be assured, I'll be back. Thanks for the concern; you'll find out for yourself all about this 'ere ageing process in a couple of decades or so. There's no fighting it, and anyway, I've not enough breath to do so. Keep my place warm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='the boy' timestamp='1440684200' post='2852947'] I think it is fair to say that the Beatles were so Omni-influential and widely accepted that it would be hard to find in the western world, modern or contemporary music that wasn't influenced directly or indirectly by the Beatles. I think to say that every band would list the Beatles as an influence would be stretching the theory however I think it reasonable that you could link every modern bands influences to the Beatles by 3 degrees of separation. I think the tsunami created by the Beatles was so far reaching that it left very little in its path unaffected, and anything that wasn't affected by the initial blast almost certainly got a bump from the after tremors. Anyone not accepting this as the truth is being stubborn and unrealistic. [/quote] Exactly! I think we we hear a Beatles songs, it's multi dimensional for us. We experience a lot more than the song. All they hear is an old song they unfamiliar with and means nothing to them. Sort of like if I heard ( which I haven't ) a song by One Direction. Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='the boy' timestamp='1440684304' post='2852949'] For the record I wasn't there and I'm not particularly a fan. [/quote] I you weren't there it would be very difficult to be a fan. Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1440688962' post='2853011'] Have you seen Allan Pollock's "Notes On..." series analysing the Beatles' songs? [url="http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-beatles_projects.shtml"]http://www.icce.rug...._projects.shtml[/url] It's surprising how much there is going on in even the simple sounding early songs such as "Love Me Do", but in particular by the time of songs such as "Another Girl". Sounds, simple, but there are some tricky key changes in there. [/quote] For me, to this date, John's harmonica intro on "Love Me Do" is brilliant. Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1440706247' post='2853207'] I you weren't there it would be very difficult to be a fan. Blue [/quote] Is this what you meant to say...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1440662632' post='2852706'] Why do you think that? Does your hero worship blind you totally? [/quote] Because,Bolan, Bowie, Slade and The Sweet were influenced by The Beatles. All post 1964 rock pop bands were. It just the way it is. I won't even give you an answer on why I think they were. It's just silly to think they weren't. LOL Blue Edited August 27, 2015 by blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1440671594' post='2852812'] Yeah, but so what? *channelling my 13 year old self* TBH everyone is influenced by everything they hear in both wanting to be like the bands they like and not wanting to be like the bands they don't like. I'm sure that I have been influenced by The Beatles over the years but to me they are no more or less important as an influence then the 1000s of over bands that I have heard in that time. [/quote] I would say yeah, you have been influenced by The Beatles and so were the other 1000s of bands you mentioned. Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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