The Beatles Curse

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1440706247' post='2853207']
I you weren't there it would be very difficult to be a fan.

Blue
[/quote]

[URL=http://s903.photobucket.com/user/ben_merrick/media/double_facepalm.png.html][IMG]http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/ben_merrick/double_facepalm.png[/IMG][/URL]

[blue]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1440672208' post='2852815']
There were very few bands that I listened to, when first getting serious about music, that took much, if anything, from the Beatles. In my formative years I started by listening to 50's rock'n'roll and stuff Teddy boys would have listened to. From that I went to blues and r&b and from there to punk.
For my musical development they're a bit player.
And for the younger folk of today the Beatles have near no influence at all...not with regards to hip hop and contemporary R&B which seems to be their thing.
[/quote]

I wouldn't categorize Hip Hop or contemporary R&B as Pop or Rock. So I agree with you there.

Obviously early R&B influenced The Beatles.


Blue

Edited August 27, 2015 by blue

[skankdelvar]

In re: Bolan, Bowie, Slade and the Sweet being influenced by the Beatles:

* Mr Bowie collaborated with John Lennon on 'Fame', sampled 'A Day in The Life' and covered 'Across the Universe'.

* Marc Bolan worked with Ringo Starr in the movie Born To Boogie while - in return - inspired Mr Starr's single 'Back Off Boogaloo'. They also went on holiday together and had a lovely time.

* Mr Noddy Holder's most recent stage appearance on March 27th (his first in many years, afaik) was a performance at Walsall town hall with Beatles tribute band 'The Born Again Beatles'.

* I cannot report on the Beatles influence on The Sweet, but Mr Andy Scott of that band lives in the next village over from me. If and when I see him I shall ask him to vouchsafe the facts in the matter.
[i].[/i]

Such intelligence as I have garnered may not be conclusive proof of any influence but is certainly[i] suggestive.[/i] Edited August 27, 2015 by skankdelvar

[CamdenRob]

Personally I think mozart would been nothing without The Beatles...

[blue]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440708961' post='2853261']
In re: Bolan, Bowie, Slade and the Sweet being influenced by the Beatles:

* Mr Bowie collaborated with John Lennon on 'Fame', sampled 'A Day in The Life' and covered 'Across the Universe'.

* Marc Bolan worked with Ringo Starr in the movie Born To Boogie while - in return - inspired Mr Starr's single 'Back Off Boogaloo'. They also went on holiday together and had a lovely time.

* Mr Noddy Holder's most recent stage appearance on March 27th (his first in many years, afaik) was a performance at Walsall town hall with Beatles tribute band 'The Born Again Beatles'.

* I cannot report on the Beatles influence on The Sweet, but Mr Andy Scott of that band lives in the next village over from me. If and when I see him I shall ask him to vouchsafe the facts in the matter.
[i].[/i]

Such intelligence as I have garnered may not be conclusive proof of any influence but is certainly[i] suggestive.[/i]
[/quote]


Man, I love The Sweet!

Blue

[skankdelvar]

[b]From the NME May 1998 - 'Oasis: Just A Beatles Rip-Off?[/b]

Noel: He'll f**king tell you he's a totally f**king unique talent but he had a f**king picture of John f**king Lennon pinned over his f**king bed 'til he f**king left home

Liam; That's a f**king lie. It was f**king McCartney and it were f**king over your f**king bed.

Noel: It were a f**king bunk bed you f**king toerag liar and it were f**king Lennon.

Liam: F**king f**k you, you f**king f**ker

Noel: Stop f**king whining, our kid.

Liam: I f**king told you I didn't f**king want to f**king cover f**king 'I Am The F**king Walrus'.

Edited August 27, 2015 by skankdelvar

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1440709811' post='2853279']
Man, I love The Sweet!

Blue
[/quote]

Great band. Mr Scott has put on a bit of weight since the glory days, though.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440691162' post='2853040']
Though there might be some post-Beatlemania artistes whose Beatlefluences are less immediately detectable; Captain Beefheart springs to mind.
[/quote]

Here's a bit of Beatle influence, what with the title and the "Strawberry Fields Forever" quote. Apparently John Lennon was quite enthusiastic about the Captain's first album, so this song may have been an attempt to annoy him.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuv1HBTbHO4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuv1HBTbHO4[/url]

[Old Man Riva]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440708961' post='2853261']
In re: Bolan, Bowie, Slade and the Sweet being influenced by the Beatles:

* Mr Bowie covered 'Across the Universe'.[/quote]
Mr Bowie MURDERED Across the Universe, and I say that as someone who loves Bowie and has been known to listen to Tin Machine through choice..

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1440710493' post='2853294']
Here's a bit of Beatle influence, what with the title and the "Strawberry Fields Forever" quote. Apparently John Lennon was quite enthusiastic about the Captain's first album, so this song may have been an attempt to annoy him.
[/quote]

Thank you, my dear Beer, for your kind effort in locating and publishing that 'link'.

Moving on...

For the avoidance of confusion, people, I have not owned a Beatles record since 1979 and - for myself - consider the [i]fons et origo[/i] of modern popular music to be The Carter Family. Nevertheless I am filled with admiration at Mr Blues stoic - nay, Spartan - defence of his opinion at a time when it is neither profitable nor popular.

It rather puts me in mind of Mr Blue's countryman US Army Brig. Gen McAuliffe who in 1944 when called upon by the encircling Nazis to surrender at Bastogne dispatched the immortal reply: 'Nuts'.

From such tenacity are legends born. That is the case here. We are witnessing something very special.
[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited August 27, 2015 by skankdelvar

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Old Man Riva' timestamp='1440711818' post='2853305']
Mr Bowie MURDERED Across the Universe, and I say that as someone who loves Bowie and has been known to listen to Tin Machine through choice..
[/quote]

Mr Bowie also covered 'Try some, buy some', one of the worst songs that George Harrison ever wrote (IMHO). And Mr Bowie did not improve it.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1440712564' post='2853312']
Mr Bowie also covered 'Try some, buy some', one of the worst songs that George Harrison ever wrote (IMHO). And Mr Bowie did not improve it.
[/quote]

Who among us has not at some juncture essayed an interpretation of a Beatles' composition? Many is the time that some fool has cried to me: 'Let's do "Get Back", Skank - It's really easy!' and proceeded to slaughter said ditty.
[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited August 27, 2015 by skankdelvar

[tauzero]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440712075' post='2853307']
From such tenacity are legends born. That is the case here. We are witnessing something very special.
[/quote]

He hasn't yet learnt that the true art of trolling requires putting in a minimum of effort. This is more like blunderbussing.

[TimR]

If nothing this thread has opened my eyes to the fact that the Beatles invented a whole bunch of chords that just were not around before 1965.

How much of this was due to the electric guitar and the mechanics of finding 6 note chords that maybe no one had applied is another question.

It would be interesting to listen critically to some Pink Floyd and Beatles side to side on timelines to see how much crossover there is.

Because I still find it very hard to believe that just one group can be singlehandedly responsible for the '60s.

.

Edited August 28, 2015 by TimR

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1440707399' post='2853221']
I would say yeah, you have been influenced by The Beatles and so were the other 1000s of bands you mentioned.

Blue
[/quote]

Bob Marley though, apparently.

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7571952.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.u...ine/7571952.stm[/url]

Edited August 28, 2015 by Slipperydick

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440758848' post='2853543']
If nothing this thread has opened my eyes to the fact that the Beatles invented a whole bunch of chords that just were not around before 1965.

How much of this was due to the electric guitar and the mechanics of finding 6 note chords that maybe no one had applied is another question.

It would be interesting to listen critically to some Pink Floyd and Beatles side to side on timelines to see how much crossover there is.

Because I still find it very hard to believe that just one group can be singlehandedly responsible for the '60s.

.
[/quote]

Que? I assume you're not being serious here because they introduced chords and harmonic techniques that weren't in common use in the pop/rock of that era, but were being used and had been used in other musical genres.

The Beatles took influence from other people, and were very upfront about this. E.g. lyrical influence from Dylan, altered bass from The Beach Boys, etc.

I don't think anyone is actually saying that The Beatles were singlehandedly responsible for the 60s, but they were the biggest influencing factor on popular music in that time. I've read that people used to wait around until The Beatles released their next album, so that they knew where the bar for popular music would be for the next six months.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Annoying Twit

[TimR]

Well I'm confused.

Is it no wonder that people who weren't there don't get it.

I certainly don't think it's even possible to explain it. And I still have no idea why it's a curse.

[tauzero]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440765240' post='2853643']
I certainly don't think it's even possible to explain it. And I still have no idea why it's a curse.
[/quote]

The OP's curse is that he can't get the young folks to listen to him when he tells them that the Beatles were responsible for all music since 1963. Our curse is that some old bloke goes banging on constantly about how the Beatles were responsible for all music since 1963. So there's actually two curses.

[Annoying Twit]

I think there is a failure to understand. I don't think the OP is saying that The Beatles were responsible for all music since 1963, just that they were a very big influence on current music, but not the only one. This thread has discussed the ways that The Beatles were influenced by others, and other musical acts that were highly influential (e.g. Kraftwerk, De La Soul) since then.

[discreet]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1440766797' post='2853671']
So there's actually two curses.
[/quote]

Three, if you count ****. And of course ****, **** and ****. So that's six.

[TimR]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1440767365' post='2853679']


Three, if you count ****. And of course ****, **** and ****. So that's six.
[/quote]

I think you'll find that's from the Sex Pistols thread where we discussed John Lydon's cover of John Lennon's Imagine.

[rushbo]

[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]There is some truth in the observation that most popular Music owes a debt to The Beatles. What we often overlook is that they were just one of many bands working in a similar musical area in the UK at the time. With Rock and Roll being pretty much dead in the US in the early sixties, bands in Britain responded to the fading echo of that music and made it their own. Often by playing it slightly wrong on inferior (or homemade) instruments. We also had Skiffle, which tends to be forgotten, but that had a massive influence on late 50’s youth over here and put guitars in the hands of thousands of would-be Lonnie Donegan’s. If The Beatles hadn’t made it, who’s to say that The Animals, the Kinks, the Yardbirds or The Rolling Stones would have become the defining band of that era? [/color][/size][/font]
[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]Because of the speed that Pop Culture moves at, it is pointless to insist to a guy in a Death Metal band that he owes everything to George Harrison. He will counter that he gets his style from Synyster Gates, who got it from Dimebag Darrell, who got it from Eddie Van Halen, who got it from Jimmy Page who got some of it from Harrison, but a lot of it from Lonnie Donegan and James Burton. [/color][/size][/font]
[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]50 years is a long time in Pop. The Beatles were a massive influence, but that has dissipated somewhat – it permeates most western Pop, but with every passing year and every new sub-sub genre, the degrees of separation increase. To say that “you don’t get it because you weren’t there” smacks of arrogance. I wasn’t around for when Leo Fender and Les Paul created their prototype electric guitars, but I know how important their work was. I sympathise with OP as I’m a massive Beatles fan (I’ve been to conventions and everything…) but 2015 is different planet to 1963. [/color][/size][/font]

Edited August 28, 2015 by rushbo

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1440763814' post='2853626']
... I don't think anyone is actually saying that The Beatles were singlehandedly responsible for the 60s, but they were the biggest influencing factor on popular music in that time. I've read that people used to wait around until The Beatles released their next album, so that they knew where the bar for popular music would be for the next six months.
[/quote]

Of course, I expect even some younger people (fewer years than 59) know that it was not single-handed, nonetheless The Beatles were the centre of a 'perfect storm' (as someone called it earlier - Water of Tyne, I think).

Others were near the centre, e.g. possibly Dylan, while others were not really near the centre at all, e.g. possibly Dave Clark Five.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='rushbo' timestamp='1440769572' post='2853709']
[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]There is some truth in the observation that most popular Music owes a debt to The Beatles. What we often overlook is that they were just one of many bands working in a similar musical area in the UK at the time. With Rock and Roll being pretty much dead in the US in the early sixties, bands in Britain responded to the fading echo of that music and made it their own. Often by playing it slightly wrong on inferior (or homemade) instruments. We also had Skiffle, which tends to be forgotten, but that had a massive influence on late 50’s youth over here and put guitars in the hands of thousands of would-be Lonnie Donegan’s. If The Beatles hadn’t made it, who’s to say that The Animals, the Kinks, the Yardbirds or The Rolling Stones would have become the defining band of that era? [/color][/size][/font]
[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]Because of the speed that Pop Culture moves at, it is pointless to insist to a guy in a Death Metal band that he owes everything to George Harrison. He will counter that he gets his style from Synyster Gates, who got it from Dimebag Darrell, who got it from Eddie Van Halen, who got it from Jimmy Page who got some of it from Harrison, but a lot of it from Lonnie Donegan and James Burton. [/color][/size][/font]
[font=Calibri][size=3][color=#000000]50 years is a long time in Pop. The Beatles were a massive influence, but that has dissipated somewhat – it permeates most western Pop, but with every passing year and every new sub-sub genre, the degrees of separation increase. To say that “you don’t get it because you weren’t there” smacks of arrogance. I wasn’t around for when Leo Fender and Les Paul created their prototype electric guitars, but I know how important their work was. I sympathise with OP as I’m a massive Beatles fan (I’ve been to conventions and everything…) but 2015 is different planet to 1963. [/color][/size][/font]
[/quote]

Lonnie's influence can't be understated.

But re: your point about another band filling the void if The Beatles hadn't made it... of course. But it's incredibly unlikely anyone would have made a crater as big as The Beatles. I'm going to say it again - the Beatles phenomenon was the result of a perfect storm, unlikely to be repeated.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1440770699' post='2853720']
Of course, I expect even some younger people (fewer years than 59) know that it was not single-handed, nonetheless The Beatles were the centre of a 'perfect storm' (as someone called it earlier - Water of Tyne, I think).

[/quote]

Jinxies!