The Beatles Curse

[tauzero]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441372900' post='2858402']
At no point has anyone (including the OP) suggested that we aren't allowed to have opinions or tastes.
[/quote]

Yes he has. I've quoted it before, I shan't bother quoting it again.

[ras52]

[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1441620874' post='2860233']
I remember a gig in Birmingham, UK. I think it was Joe Walsh (was a long time ago) who said: "We have a Birmingham in Alabama, it's a much nicer place".
There you are, Beatlemania couldn't happen in a nicer place.
[/quote]


[color=#404040][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]There are a lot of rich people in Birmingham[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#404040][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]A lot of ghosts in a lot of houses[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#404040][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Look over there!...A dry ice factory[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#404040][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]A good place to get some thinking done[/size][/font][/color]

[cheddatom]

To get back on this subject of "wisdom"... I think the "spirit" of The Beatles was creativity. They were constantly changing and innovating to create new and unique original music. This is what I learned from The Beatles. I too try to constantly change my approach to music, and attempt to produce music that's new, exciting, and original.

I wonder how much use any of the "wisdom" learned from being "there" is when it comes to playing a covers set in a pub?

[EssentialTension]

The Beatles learned thrir wisdom and creativity by doing their 10000 hours playing covers in pubs/bars/clubs like the Cavern and the Kaiserkellar.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1441623179' post='2860268']
The Beatles learned thrir wisdom and creativity by doing their 10000 hours playing covers in pubs/bars/clubs like the Cavern and the Kaiserkellar.
[/quote]

Indeed, but all the american musicians who grew up in the 60s learned their wisdom from The Beatles on TV!

EDIT: Sorry, I am being a bit sarcastic. There's loads to be learned from gigging, but I'd say it's mainly "stagecraft". I'm sure the Beatles had this in spades, and it's a big reason for their success. Was it more important than the music they wrote though? I don't think you learn how to write music by playing covers in a pub, but maybe I'm wrong?

Edited September 7, 2015 by cheddatom

[TimR]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1441623951' post='2860277']


Indeed, but all the american musicians who grew up in the 60s learned their wisdom from The Beatles on TV!

EDIT: Sorry, I am being a bit sarcastic. There's loads to be learned from gigging, but I'd say it's mainly "stagecraft". I'm sure the Beatles had this in spades, and it's a big reason for their success. Was it more important than the music they wrote though? I don't think you learn how to write music by playing covers in a pub, but maybe I'm wrong?
[/quote]

Some people don't seem to. They just copy without understanding.

A lot of people do though. Luckily.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1441623951' post='2860277']
... I don't think you learn how to write music by playing covers in a pub ...
[/quote]
I'd say that very little creativity (if any at all) comes from nothing. Only God supposedly creates [i]ex nihilo[/i].

For songwriting, it might not be actually playing covers in a pub but - at least generally speaking - it will involve deep immersion in some way in already existing songs and in most cases they will be the base material from which the new is constructed.

John Lennon said of ELO's Showdown:

[quote]On September 28, 1974, John Lennon was a guest of Dennis Elsas on WNEW-FM, a New York City radio station, where he commented that if the Beatles had stayed together, they would sound like ELO on [i]Showdown[/i], calling them the "Son of Beatles."

"We're gonna play Electric Light Orchestra from last year, [i]Showdown[/i], which I thought was a great record and I was expecting it to be #1 but I don't think UA [United Artists] got their fingers out and pushed it. And it's a nice group -- I call them 'Son of Beatles' -- although they're doing things we never did, obviously. But I remember a statement they made when they first formed was to carry on from where the Beatles left off with [i]Walrus[/i], and they certainly did. And for those people who like to know where licks and things come from, which I do.... this is a beautiful combination of [i]I Heard It Through The Grapevine[/i] by Marvin Gaye and [i]Lightning Strikes Again[/i] Lou Christie, and it's a beautiful job with a little [i]Walrus[/i] underneath." [url="http://www.jefflynnesongs.com/showdown/"]Source[/url] [/quote]

[media]http://youtu.be/QB9MgpxF4HQ[/media]

On the same radio show Lennon talks about the influence of bluebeat/ska on the middle eight of The Beatles [i]I Call Your Name[/i] - [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiZHkhqQWaE"]https://www.youtube....h?v=QiZHkhqQWaE[/url]

[EssentialTension]

... and also Jeff Lynne didn't live far from the number 11 route.

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1441628335' post='2860345']
... and also Jeff Lynne didn't live far from the number 11 route.
[/quote]

So similar influences then.

I spotted McCartneys frog record in Ozzys kitchen last time I was there, and he used to live near the inner circle 8 route. Probably just goes to prove what goes around comes around, or something

[ras52]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1441636690' post='2860451']
So similar influences then.

I spotted McCartneys frog record in Ozzys kitchen last time I was there, and he used to live near the inner circle 8 route. Probably just goes to prove what goes around comes around, or something
[/quote]

Well, when all the seats on the number 11 are taken, we all stand together.

[skankdelvar]

Over the course of this thread there has been a stream of posts about 'Why can't I have an opinion?' as if it were unacceptable to say - quite politely - 'Frankly, I'm not interested in countervailing views'. Some of these posts can be attributed to skim-reading or misunderstanding. More than a few have their roots in a desire to 'punish'

Blue's been harried from pillar to post because for some it's a golden opportunity to displace their aggression onto someone else for expressing an unfashionable view. So they have a pop and then get even more annoyed when he doesn't bow and scrape to them.

Next thing a bunch of self-appointed forum vigilantes start forensically dissecting his words to try to make their case. It's so beyond pathetic and so inimical to the idea of 'community' that it beggars belief.

Fair play to those who engaged with Blue on an intelligent or accepting or friendly level.. Shame on those who saw it as a opportunity to start a witch hunt or make sniffy jokes at his expense.

I suppose it's my own fault for expecting too much of some members. Again.

[Big_Stu]

Obviously I'm all for people having opinions. It's when you get responses along the lines of that if you don't agree you don't "get it", which I see as an insult personally.
Also, flashing statements such as
[quote name='blue' timestamp='1438210464' post='2832653']If you hear the sound of an electric guitar your hearing The Beatles in one way or the other.[/quote] should quite rightly be challenged to the point of ridicule, regardless of ones respect to any forum user to have an opinion.

[Earbrass]

I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other about the Beatles issue (despite having been around at the time), but I have to say I think the OP has been pompous, arrogant, condescending and more than a little ridiculous in many posts (in this and other threads), and I'm not at all surprised that people have reacted to this.

[Billy Apple]

Either this thread changes the direction it's heading or it will be headed off at the pass.

[ezbass]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1441647847' post='2860567']
Either this thread changes the direction it's heading or it will be headed off at the pass.
[/quote]Proabaly not before time, the fun bus section notwithstanding, this thread has been circling for a fair bit.

[blue]

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. It would be nice to know what your opinion is based on.

If your opinion is based on nothing. Well, what can I say.

Blue

Edited September 7, 2015 by blue

[SteveK]

There are those that question the true perpetrators of 9/11.
There are those that question the 1969 moon landing.
And, as 16 pages show, there are even those that question the profound effect The Beatles had/have on popular music.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1441645918' post='2860552']
I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other about the Beatles issue (despite having been around at the time), but I have to say I think the OP has been pompous, arrogant, condescending and more than a little ridiculous in many posts (in this and other threads), and I'm not at all surprised that people have reacted to this.
[/quote]

So what you're saying is you've nothing to add to the thread but basically you've never really liked him and now is a good time to share that thought with us.

Well, people, that's what happens when you get a witch-hunt going. Posters think it's safe to join in and hand out a beating because someone else has already set a precedent. Well, that sucks.

Notwithstanding whatever the OP may still have to say that may be offered as a polite observation but perceived by a vocal minority as a dire insult, it's probably best to kill this thread before anyone else decides to get their cosh out.

Edited September 7, 2015 by skankdelvar

[Old Man Riva]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1441636690' post='2860451']I spotted McCartneys frog record in Ozzys kitchen last time I was there, and he used to live near the inner circle 8 route. Probably just goes to prove what goes around comes around, or something
[/quote]
Ozzy's a massive Beatles fan. Remember reading as a kid that he was obsessed with them and, being young and naive, couldn't get my head around the Prince of Darkness bopping along to Love Me Do (around the same time I also had it in my head that Angus Young probably actually did wear a school uniform as his everyday garb).

Always thought the bass line on Tonight (off one of his first solo albums) was very Macca-esque (courtesy of the underrated Bob Daisley).

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441660900' post='2860753']Notwithstanding whatever the OP may still have to say that may be offered as a polite observation but perceived by a vocal minority as a dire insult, it's probably best to kill this thread before anyone else decides to get their cosh out.
[/quote]

The OP could have easily accomplished that if he'd conceded this point made days ago............
[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1438533631' post='2835226']
Maybe it would be less of a curse and just accepted that what was earth shattering to you was different to others, and stop trying to make the point to people who disagree![/quote]

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1441665255' post='2860790']
The OP could have easily accomplished that if he'd conceded this point made days ago............

[quote]Maybe it would be less of a curse and just accepted that what was earth shattering to you was different to others, and stop trying to make the point to people who disagree![/quote]

[/quote]

I see what you mean and you're right. If the OP had caved in to pressure from certain individuals he wouldn't have been subject to personal abuse ... er ... doesn't sound so good when we put it like that

But it still comes down to the fact that some peoples' self esteem is so fragile that they perceive a politely expressed general observation as a specifically personal attack to which they respond with ad-hominem insults. So it all turns nasty and eventually you get muppets turning up to further their pre-existing vendetta.

There's another thread running at the moment where exactly the same thing is happening. And where are the mods while this is happening? Are they putting out the fire? No. With a couple of honourable exceptions, they're lobbing brick-ends along with all the other malcontents.

It's just horrible. All part of the general forum decline, I suppose.

The country's going to the dogs, I tell you.

Edited September 7, 2015 by skankdelvar

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441667142' post='2860805']
I see what you mean and you're right. If the OP had caved in to pressure from certain individuals he wouldn't have been subject to personal abuse ... er ... doesn't sound so good when we put it like that

But it still comes down to the fact that some peoples' self esteem is so fragile that they perceive a politely expressed general observation as a specifically personal attack to which they respond with ad-hominem insults.[/quote]

Personally I see comments such as this.......
[quote name='blue' timestamp='1438210594' post='2832654']It's considered a work of art by many historians and movie critics. If you think it was awful it just means you didn't get it.[/quote]
[quote name='blue' timestamp='1438306447' post='2833479']
You have to be kidding, right, a joke right?[/quote]
[quote name='blue' timestamp='1440707170' post='2853220']................. I won't even give you an answer on why I think they were. It's just silly to think they weren't. LOL[/quote]

.......... as borderline abusive within the context of this thread. He's got back what he's given. Your client seems incapable of respecting other peoples opinions when they don't agree with him. Which is what's the annoying part of this thread.



BTW and quite separately - in comparison to just two or three years ago where people were banned or suspended for disagreeing with particular mods or admins personal opinions or preferences I'd say the moderation of this forum has improved beyond the scale since.

[peteb]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441667142' post='2860805']


I see what you mean and you're right. If the OP had caved in to pressure from certain individuals he wouldn't have been subject to personal abuse ... er ... doesn't sound so good when we put it like that

But it still comes down to the fact that some peoples' self esteem is so fragile that they perceive a politely expressed general observation as a specifically personal attack to which they respond with ad-hominem insults. So it all turns nasty and eventually you get muppets turning up to further their pre-existing vendetta.

There's another thread running at the moment where exactly the same thing is happening. And where are the mods while this is happening? Are they putting out the fire? No. With a couple of honourable exceptions, they're lobbing brick-ends along with all the other malcontents.

All part of the general forum decline. The country's going to the dogs, I tell you.
[/quote]
Skank, I fear that your sensibilities are a little delicate for the brave new world of the internet. My main concern is that the keyboard warriors chucking their toys around are so badly informed!

The other thread to which I assume you refer is merely someone amusing themselves by making a ridiculous statement then accusing anyone who disagrees of doing so through vanity. Just a bit of attention seeking, quite harmless really. As far as this thread goes I can't see why anyone is arguing, yet alone getting upset and throwing insults around. The Beatles have undoubtedly had the biggest impact on popular culture of anyone in the last 70 years!

Now I'm not even a fan of the Fab 4, but to deny their influence or importance is just daft...

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1441668719' post='2860811']Now I'm not even a fan of the Fab 4, but to deny their influence or importance is just daft...
[/quote]

For the life of me I can't see where anyone has suggested such a thing on this thread. It's such strawman statements as this that are keeping this dead end going.

[Rich]

And this is where the dead end stops. I hope this piece of firefighting meets with your approval Skank.