The Beatles Curse

[spinynorman]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1438609960' post='2835739']
The nub of this thread (as so many before it) is that the OP feels himself to have been significantly influenced by The Beatles at a formative moment in his life and - moreover - asserts that many others were similarly affected, be they musicians or consumers.

[/quote]

With respect, I don't think that was quite the nob of the original post. The way I read it, the OP feels being born at a particular time and growing up with a particular set of musical influences gives him some kind of unique authority in popular music, which he has difficulty getting other people to acknowledge. Having been born at the same time, growing up with the same influences, albeit in a different country, I can fully understand why later generations wouldn't find this idea very engaging at all.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1440344746' post='2849961']
The way I read it, the OP feels being born at a particular time and growing up with a particular set of musical influences gives him some kind of unique authority in popular music, which he has difficulty getting other people to acknowledge. Having been born at the same time, growing up with the same influences, albeit in a different country, I can fully understand why later generations wouldn't find this idea very engaging at all.
[/quote]

Well, if the OP being born at a particular time gives him an authority to comment on the Beatles' impact o popular music, who are we to gainsay him? Lots of people think lots of things but frankly it's immaterial whether I find their ideas engaging. Their appreciation of events or issues may be at variance with mine - and that's a good thing.

I don't mind what people think, except when they think that it's necessary to challenge someone's opinion [i]because[/i] it's not 'engaging'. The problem with this thread and the Keef / Pepper thread is that various individuals (not yourself ) are getting all 'How very dare he?' as if holding a firm opinion is [i]a bad thing[/i] and that the proponent of any such opinion should apologise and issue a correction.

I suppose my point is that this is a discussion forum, not a court of law where someone's on trial for a misdemeanour. Though it seems it may as well be, if some had their way.

[MacDaddy]

The Beatles were a second rate rip off of the genuine article.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu3T_2GzXSo"]http://www.youtube....h?v=Fu3T_2GzXSo[/url]

[Hobbayne]

It has always bothered me why Capitol Records in the USA put 'RECORDED IN ENGLAND' on Beatles singles.
I know that the Americans had better recording techniques than backward Britain, but surely does it really matter where it was recorded?
The Stones recorded a lot of stuff in the US in the 60's, but it never had RECORDED IN THE USA on the label!!

[Woodinblack]

Maybe it was to make it sound more exotic?

[ahpook]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1440359796' post='2850112']
It has always bothered me why Capitol Records in the USA put 'RECORDED IN ENGLAND' on Beatles singles.
[/quote]

Maybe the 50Hz hum confused them ?

[CamdenRob]

Mrs C and I took my folks to Let it Be this weekend, which is basically a Beatles tribute band gig in a West end theatre, where they run through the various eras, playing a few songs from each .

I have to say I quite enjoyed the music. I have never had any interest in the Beatles, I never listen to the radio and have never followed mainstream music, so I was hearing most of the songs for the first time.

The early stuff sounded like well crafted pop songs and I really enjoyed the St Pepper bit, some great songs there... You can hear the musicianship in the songwriting and the way the vocal melodies interact with the music makes it all very listenable. The later stuff seemed to sound a bit generic to me, but over all the music held my attention for two and a half hours... can't think of many bands that would do that.

Edited August 24, 2015 by CamdenRob

[TimR]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1440359796' post='2850112']
It has always bothered me why Capitol Records in the USA put 'RECORDED IN ENGLAND' on Beatles singles.
I know that the Americans had better recording techniques than backward Britain, but surely does it really matter where it was recorded?
The Stones recorded a lot of stuff in the US in the 60's, but it never had RECORDED IN THE USA on the label!!


[/quote]

It's a legal thing. If you look carefully it'll be on every record somewhere. Brown Sugar has 'Manufactured in the UK by EMI' on it.

Just more prominent on that one.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1440359796' post='2850112']
It has always bothered me why Capitol Records in the USA put 'RECORDED IN ENGLAND' on Beatles singles.
I know that the Americans had better recording techniques than backward Britain, but surely does it really matter where it was recorded?
The Stones recorded a lot of stuff in the US in the 60's, but it never had RECORDED IN THE USA on the label!!


[/quote]

I think you need to find something else to be angry about

[PaulWarning]

not sure if this relevant , I was listening to Gold over the weekend (it's mostly a digital station available in the East Midlands) and they were playing a Day in a Life and it got me thinking, how many other bands get their album only tracks played on the radio years after they were released? Only Beatles nerds would realise they were never released as singles, probably.

[Hobbayne]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1440405738' post='2850298']
I think you need to find something else to be angry about
[/quote]

And One Direction have split!!

[blue]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440348118' post='2849990']
Well, if the OP being born at a particular time gives him an authority to comment on the Beatles' impact o popular music, who are we to gainsay him? Lots of people think lots of things but frankly it's immaterial whether I find their ideas engaging. Their appreciation of events or issues may be at variance with mine - and that's a good thing.

I don't mind what people think, except when they think that it's necessary to challenge someone's opinion [i]because[/i] it's not 'engaging'. The problem with this thread and the Keef / Pepper thread is that various individuals (not yourself ) are getting all 'How very dare he?' as if holding a firm opinion is [i]a bad thing[/i] and that the proponent of any such opinion should apologise and issue a correction.

I suppose my point is that this is a discussion forum, not a court of law where someone's on trial for a misdemeanour. Though it seems it may as well be, if some had their way.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know I sound like real prick with this Beatles thing.

The whole thing about being born at a certain time and place that had this huge impact on my life is just opinion. Just like when I say young folk should keep their negative uninformed opinion to themselves, because I still opinion if you weren't there you don't understand stand what happened or what the Beatles did. It's not a matter of right or wrong.

That's just my arrogant opinion.

Blue

[TimR]

I think the perceived arrogance is that you think anyone not born in the 60s hasn't had an equally important and influential exposure to music.

I was born at the tail end of The Beatles and grew up in the 70s/80s and 90s. When there were huge changes in music. I started playing in the mid 80s and 30 years later I'm still playing.

The guys in my band are of a similar age and have similar experiences.

To claim we don't have a musical passion or a heritage because we weren't alive in the 60s is nonsense.

[Hobbayne]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440503261' post='2851291']
I think the perceived arrogance is that you think anyone not born in the 60s hasn't had an equally important and influential exposure to music.

I was born at the tail end of The Beatles and grew up in the 70s/80s and 90s. When there were huge changes in music. I started playing in the mid 80s and 30 years later I'm still playing.

The guys in my band are of a similar age and have similar experiences.

To claim we don't have a musical passion or a heritage because we weren't alive in the 60s is nonsense.
[/quote]

+1
I was born in the 60's but I still enjoy listening to Buddy Holly and a lot of stuff from the 50's.
Because I wasnt there to appreciate it first time around does that mean that I have less right to enjoy it than someone who remembers it when it was new??

[skankdelvar]

Y'see, I don't have a problem here. My understanding of what Blue's saying is:

'[i]The contention is that the Beatles had (or did not have) a considerable influence on contemporary music and culture. When assessing the band's impact [/i][u]at that time[/u][i] a first-hand experience of events confers a certain authority of viewpoint denied to those who by reason of their youth may only draw their understanding through third-hand reports[/i].'

Frankly, Blue is correct in his perfectly logical assertion. And were it possible I'd love to buy him a beer and hear some stories about musical life in Milwaukee back in the 60's.

Instead of which I'm sitting here watching a small group of 'opinion vigilantes' trying to browbeat one of the few [i]interesting [/i]people on this forum into retracting an opinion which is hardly going to bring society to its knees.

Many seem to be asking indignant and slightly whiny questions on the lines of: 'Are you saying me and people like me can't I have my opinion?'

To these members I would say this:

'You all know full well you can have an opinion - but for some reason you won't let Blue hold an opinion which carries somewhat more weight than most. Some of you are mischievously misrepresenting his position in an attempt to foment ill-feeling for purposes of petty self-aggrandisement.

'You're being rather silly and spiteful. Best you go and sit on the naughty step to contemplate your foolishness'.

Edited August 25, 2015 by skankdelvar

[Rich]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440512490' post='2851391']
And were it possible I'd love to buy him a beer[/quote]
You do realise they don't drink [i]proper[/i] beer over there, don't you?

[TimR]

He does claim to have a wisdom and perspective that younger people just won't have.

A perspective maybe but I'm not sure where wisdom comes from. And a perspective of having grown up in the 60s is no different to people who were at the Electric Ballroom and other venues in the 80s.

I'm sorry but I'm one of those people who don't believe that the baby boomer and 60s generation have a monopoly on pop culture.

[BigRedX]

Where is Beatles band? This band who have not been as of late clear of circumstance. Beatles Band! Can we no longer hear there medolious throng? John! Paul! All in Beatles Band come forth! What question have we to put? Now? Arguments neccessary can begin with whole results expected for any return. Ringo! Here in Thailand Beatles band experience is long loved and can be hurt away from John, Paul etc. Please give any news to Samuel K. Amphong of address similar to above. yours as in rock!

Samuel K Amphong, Thailand

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1440513934' post='2851413']
You do realise they don't drink [i]proper[/i] beer over there, don't you?
[/quote]

Dear boy - Milwaukee was the home of American brewing.

Pabst, Schlitz, Miller and Blatz all started in that fair city though only Miller remain (iirc). In its day, Milwaukee probably produced more beer than anywhere in the world and even now, Wisconsin boasts an enviable roster of brewers large and small. I would imagine one could find a decent brew if one tried.

Fact: To this day the city's [s]rounders[/s] baseball team is known as the Milwaukee Brewers.

[wateroftyne]

I only have video archives, anecdotes, books and the music to base it on, but I really can't think of a culture shock comparable to the Beatles getting off that plane in 1963. I don't think anything comes close.

[ras52]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440514551' post='2851424']
Dear boy - Milwaukee was the home of American brewing.

Pabst, Schlitz, Miller and Blatz all started in that fair city though only Miller remain (iirc). In its day, Milwaukee probably produced more beer than anywhere in the world and even now, Wisconsin boasts an enviable roster of brewers large and small. I would imagine one could find a decent brew if one tried.

Fact: To this day the city's [s]rounders[/s] baseball team is known as the Milwaukee Brewers.
[/quote]

And what made Milwaukee famous made a loser out of me...

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1440514581' post='2851427']
I only have video archives, anecdotes, books and the music to base it on, but I really can't think of a culture shock comparable to the Beatles getting off that plane in 1963. I don't think anything comes close.
[/quote]

Funny, was thinking about this thread last night whilst reading a few pages of Andrew Marr's A History of Britain in the 20th Century. There could be an argument for the GIs landing in the UK bringing about a larger cultural change than anything that has come since.

[Rich]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1440514551' post='2851424']
Pabst, Schlitz, Miller and Blatz all started in that fair city though only Miller remain (iirc). In its day, Milwaukee probably produced more beer than anywhere in the world and even now, Wisconsin boasts an enviable roster of brewers large and small. I would imagine one could find a decent brew if one tried.
[/quote]
Oh yes, I'm sure that between them Papst and Schitz and Millerpede and Batz brew [i]a lot[/i] of 'beer'. There's no doubting that. And it probably goes down very nicely on a warmish day as an accompaniment to the snick of vinyl on plywood, or whatever it is they make their baseball racquets out of. But the question is, [i]is it any good[/i]? How would it square up to a nice brown pint of Scruttock's Old Dirigible?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1440515205' post='2851435']


Funny, was thinking about this thread last night whilst reading a few pages of Andrew Marr's A History of Britain in the 20th Century. There could be an argument for the GIs landing in the UK bringing about a larger cultural change than anything that has come since.
[/quote]

Initially localised around the bases.

The Beatles got off the plane and within hours had played to pretty much the whole population.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440514239' post='2851419']
He does claim to have a wisdom and perspective that younger people just won't have.[/quote]

When it comes to this subject of 'what happened and what it was like' he is correct. They weren't there. He was

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440514239' post='2851419']A perspective maybe but I'm not sure where wisdom comes from. [/quote]

Wisdom comes from experience. Everything else is just book learning.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440514239' post='2851419']And a perspective of having grown up in the 60s is no different to people who were at the Electric Ballroom and other venues in the 80s.[/quote]

Doubtless Mr Blue would cede the field to some of us when it comes to matters concerning the Electric Ballroom, an establishment wherein sexually confused young men succumbed to the entreaties of older queens and it seemed a malign force had filled the air with fart gas. Ah, good times.

But when it comes to matters Beatlesesque I believe Mr Blue has the drop on us. He was in the middle of events. He can compare 'before' and 'after' in a way denied to later generations in a different country (or even his own).

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440514239' post='2851419']I'm sorry but I'm one of those people who don't believe that the baby boomer and 60s generation have a monopoly on pop culture.
[/quote]

There's no need to apologise, for I doubt anyone really believes any one period has a [i]monopoly [/i]of influence, it being the case that time is linear and influences tend to accrete rather than to fall away.

But no intelligent man might doubt that the 1960's - and the Beatles - represent a quantum international turning point for music. Everything was changed - except in France where accordion ballads and general hi-hon-hi-hon-ery continued to infest their musical hit parade ([i]pron: luh eet parrad[/i]).

Monsieur Johnny Frenchman does not subscribe to the Anglo-Saxon view of pop music; perhaps those among us who 'object' to Mr Blue's modest opinion and the firmness with which he holds it might consider relocating to La Belle France where they will be met with open arms by the Crapauds. The French are not at all arrogant, so one should feel right at home.

Edited August 25, 2015 by skankdelvar