Mmmm, never thought I'd ask this: strings, setup and technique for slap (double bass) advice please.....?

[Beedster]

Surprised not to find a thread with this or a similar title here...........?

Anyway, I've dabbled in slap on DB but it never really appealed, and having always played with drummers live, have never really needed to use it. However, it looks like I'll be assuming bottom end and rhythm duties in a drummer-less bluegrass band soonish, so I need to get some more percussive elements into my repertoire, probably not to a huge degree, but certainly sufficient to push things along in up tempo stuff. I'm playing a nice old faded blonde which looks and sounds the part, it's got some real warmth at core whilst being capable of being quite in your face when needed (this is unlike my old Martin which was rather polite by comparison). I've got the action at around a centimetre at the end of the board, and the height looks pretty even across the strings to be honest (Jason/Legion might be able to confirm the make of the strings as they came with the bass but they feel pretty easy on the hands, not unlike Silver Slaps albeit a little warmer and with a smidgeon more tension). So, where to start really? Any advice re best strings, best action and good tuition resources would be gratefully received.

Cheers

Chris

[Mykesbass]

Thanks for asking the question Chris as it sounds like exactly what I will be after in the near future (although I'll be needing the DB to go with it) if my latest musical venture has legs.

[3below]

This must be an 'outbreak'. I have also started using my DB on the same mission (adventure) in the last month or so. Have tried Silver Slaps (which I like) but just put my old Spiro Mittels on - probably not ideal for slap. I have found Pete Turland on you tube a good starting point with explanations. Chris, if ever Hot Club of Cowtown play Aber again it is a must to see Jake Erwin. The biggest issue for me at the moment is piezo vs schaller magnetic. Piezo with Silver slaps (or anything non magnetic) sound good but feedback is an issue. Magnetic pickup sounds good but the spend to find suitable low tension strings is daunting.

Edited August 3, 2015 by 3below

[PaulKing]

Crikey how times have changed. Or not.
Back in the day there was not just a thread devoted to this topic, there was an entire forum, with hundreds of members posting non stop all day. Remember rockabillybass.com anyone?

From what I remember this was the consensus:

Gut is best. Or steel. Or if you prefer, nylon. Of course personal taste may lead to a combination, or you can make your own out of lawn mowers.

A high set up is best for slap, although super low is best too.

Pull the strings hard straight out, or sideways, with one finger or two or whichever you want, or your whole palm.

Call the techniques whatever you want, only Joe Zinkan and Kim Nekroman really know their names.

Pickups are important, on the bridge, under the bridge, behind the neck but never a mic. Unless you use a mic.

Don't need a bow

;o)

[PaulKing]

I just read that back. Actually a remarkably accurate summary of getting on for a decade of online discussion in one post.

[3below]

[quote name='PaulKing' timestamp='1438631030' post='2835972']
I just read that back. Actually a remarkably accurate summary of getting on for a decade of online discussion in one post.
[/quote]

Totally agree. It is what you make it I remember rockabillybass, sadly now gone. The waybackmachine has snapshots of it if you want to look.

Edited August 3, 2015 by 3below

[Rabbie]

Spot on Paul. As usual great posts from Paul King leave very little else to say.
Only advice: practice loads and ignore the frustration you will get loads of before becoming proficient. Muscle memory takes a while to build. You will get blisters until the callouses build up.
RELAX: slapping when tense does not work.
Technical advice is never an absolute as Paul quite correctly says, BUT as long as you can get your finger under the string and pull it in time with the music, the action is right. String tension needs to be loose enough for you to be able to slap them against the fingerboard without walloping it with all your might.
Pickups: I would say get an underwood, forget about the G side element and only fit the E side. Or go expensive and go Blast Cult but it's an investment in sanity (no feedback, no pream, full control of clicky). Contact mics (Ehrlund, Schertler) are a possibility at bluegrass stage volumes and sound great (but carry a pickup in your bag just in case)
Tuition: YouTube has everything you need, you will find the approach that suits your body and personality best.
Most of all: it's great fun! You'll have a ball!

[keeponehandloose]

Why has Rockabilly Bass forum gone?
Did it disapear up its own arse?

[Legion]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1438613895' post='2835774']
Anyway, I've dabbled in slap on DB but it never really appealed, and having always played with drummers live, have never really needed to use it. However, it looks like I'll be assuming bottom end and rhythm duties in a drummer-less bluegrass band soonish, so I need to get some more percussive elements into my repertoire, probably not to a huge degree, but certainly sufficient to push things along in up tempo stuff. (Jason/Legion might be able to confirm the make of the strings as they came with the bass but they feel pretty easy on the hands, not unlike Silver Slaps albeit a little warmer and with a smidgeon more tension). [/quote]
Chris,

Those strings are Velvet Blues so you are already on a gut-a-like string there. I'm covering the same sort of role with my DB as well, but I just use liberal amounts of ghost notes and percussive accents to drive things along. I havent needed (or wanted) to add the slap style playing to fill the space left by a drummer. In fact I quite like the undiluted aspect of things as they are.

[paddy109]

Rockabilliybass.com, thank goodness it folded as I spent an unhealthy amount of time looking at posts and buying ££££$$$$$€€€€€ worth on strings.I think some stuff from you Paul?!?

Beedster are you based in Bristol? If so and you want a trip to the country (Paulton) to try out some strings before buying I have blast cults, silver slaps, few sets of whackers and obligatos favoured by Chatham County Line, I might even have some I've forgotten!!!!!

Paddy.

[paddy109]

Beedster sorry but I mixed you up with another bchatter and thought you lived in Bristol!

[AndyBass]

When I was starting out with it I found The Ungentle Art DVD really useful. In hindsight Jared McGoverns DVD (on youtube in it's entirety as it happens) would have helped too, and has some good country playing on it that would work well for bluegrass. Slapology is good too but probably better once you've nailed the basics.

Others (such as Lee Rocker's) don't really help as they break down their slap motion and show you it really slowly, but that's not actually how their muscle memory has them do it, so they're doing these bloody great hand-claps on the string then yanking them up off the fingerboard and it bears no resemblance to how they actually play.

The best thing I ever did was hassling/bribing a few really good players to spend a bit of time with me so I could just watch and learn up close and ask stuff that I hadn't got from DVDs, YouTube or whatever.

I like the Fonokraft pickups on my bass - dirt cheap and do a good job. Likewise Paul's old K&K rockabilly setup continues to do a great job for me about 5 years after I bought it from him on Rockabillybass.com! Innovation strings are as good as anything else I've tried - the rockabillys are nice. But otherwise I tend toward lighter tension - that stuffs all just preference and how hard you want to make it for yourself!

I used to drop quite a bit of slap into my old bluegrass band. People seemed to like it as it's typically an audience where that's a bit more unusual. Good luck with it and if you're playing near Sheffield anywhere, shout up.

[Beedster]

Many thanks for all of the above guys, greatly appreciated. The biggest challenge I'm having at present is muting; playing fingerstyle (or DB equivalent) allows me to mute especially the E string with the inside of my thumb (the end of which I rest on the side of the far end of the board). I'm kinda working around it buy developing a technique that allows me to slap with my thumb still in place (and therefore mute), but suspect this might be a technique I'm going to have to unlearn at some stage if I want to progress?

Fun though

[Beedster]

OK, two gigs this weekend, one on a relatively large outdoor stage (large for us anyway). Main problem for me with the slapping stuff - which by the way has become a critical part of the overall bad sound - is too much sustain and still the occasional need to mute the E string (although I've got a lot better at doing this over recent weeks). Any tricks I can use to drop the sustain a little - on electric bass of course I'd just chuck a lump of foam under the strings! I think strings are part of the problem at present, but I don't want to start messing about with strings ahead of gigs!

Can't believe that after 10 years of trying to develop a technique to improve sustain I'm now trying to reduce it!

On a related issue, I would love the opportunity to play a DB set up and optimised for slap just to compare notes really. So if any of you good folks are gigging in the south east, have such a beast, and would be happy to let me noodle on it for 10 or so mins ahead of your gig, it would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers

C

[invicta59]

You could remove the E string () or, as some rockabilly bassists do, slacken it off so it just gives a click sound with no note . Alternatively, you could try tuning down a semitone or two across the board, if its that much of an issue?

[Rabbie]

I'd say focus on how you sound acoustically. Everything else depends on that. A friend of mine recounted a beautiful story to me about meeting Milt Hinton when he came to the UK. The judge told him that if he was gonna slap, just practice and forget about all the nonsense about steel or gut strings. Personally, I prefer how guts sound and how much easier they are on the hands, but Milt and Djordie Stijepovic did/do it on Spiros and sound amazing, so there.
Once you get your technique and sound to where you want it, as long as you control feedback and roll off the high mids, curb the treble and tame the bass, you will sound ok on stage too.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Rabbie