Is Keef right, Sgt Peppers is a load of tosh?

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1438984006' post='2839271']
Really? Surely by definition, sales figures at the time prove how many people bought the record at the time, which was my point, irrespective of quality, which is really only a matter of opinion.
[/quote]

They do. The beatles had the 2 top selling singles of the 60s. Ken Dod had the 3rd.

[indiegrungesound]

Each to their own, but I love "Sgt Pepper's..." if only for "A Day in the Life"!

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='indiegrungesound' timestamp='1438985476' post='2839293']
Each to their own, but I love "Sgt Pepper's..." if only for "A Day in the Life"!
[/quote]not all Peppers is bad, I don't think Keef was saying that, I too like a day in a life and the Sgt Peppers reprise (it rocks) can't stand Mr Kite When I'm 64 and that bloody Harrison Indian thing, not keen on With a Little Help Fron My'Friends either, although I do admit to the hairs on the back of my neck standing up when Ringo joined Macca on stage recently to sing it

[Wylie]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1438850617' post='2837893']
I would have to agree with him, my least favourite Beatles album
[/quote]

It's simple: If you weren't there, you can't get it. The music is only part of it.

[pfretrock]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1438873003' post='2838300']
The 73 tour was billed as probably their last, 2 shows at B'ham Odeon on the same night.
[/quote]
Not sure which of these two shows I went to, but found it rather perfunctory. Thanks for the photo. Keith is entitled to his opinion - if that is what it is, I heard he has a solo ablum out, so a safer way of getting attention than a coconut tree. SP was the most significant album of the decade, but then that is only my opinion.

[leschirons]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1438957940' post='2838985']
Sles figures at the time dont really prove anything, Beatles recrds were guaranteed to sell, they could have recorded their farts and fans would have called it brilliant. Only a few years later McCartney proved it by releasing Mary Had a Little Lamb.
[/quote]

There is only one "good" it doesn't exist on multiple levels. "Good" only exists in the minds of those who think something is good. It's only an opinion, so McCartney's releasing of Mary had a little lamb proves nothing other than, (if it sold well) that lots of people thought it was good for whatever reason.

[JoeEvans]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1439015775' post='2839364']
There is only one "good" it doesn't exist on multiple levels. "Good" only exists in the minds of those who think something is good. It's only an opinion, so McCartney's releasing of Mary had a little lamb proves nothing other than, (if it sold well) that lots of people thought it was good for whatever reason.
[/quote]
There obviously is that kind of 'good', but I think there's at least one other kind too. The Beatles don't do anything for me personally. If I was on a desert island with no music apart from a stack of Beatles CDs, I'd barely bother to play them. But they must be one of the most loved and most influential bands of all time, so whatever my opinion might be they were certainly 'good', to say the very least.

[leschirons]

[quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1439017243' post='2839371']
There obviously is that kind of 'good', but I think there's at least one other kind too. The Beatles don't do anything for me personally. If I was on a desert island with no music apart from a stack of Beatles CDs, I'd barely bother to play them. But they must be one of the most loved and most influential bands of all time, so whatever my opinion might be they were certainly 'good', to say the very least.
[/quote]
+1

That's what I mean. Personally I like them but it's only my opinion. It's just that some people think there's some sort of mystical other "good" that is reserved for those "in the know" ie, themselves.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Wylie' timestamp='1438991795' post='2839334']
It's simple: If you weren't there, you can't get it. The music is only part of it.
[/quote]being born in 1952 I was there, and at the time to was convinced it was a musical masterpiece, it was only a few years later that I came to the conclusion, that in my view, it wasn't, I'd been taken in by all the hype,

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1439023601' post='2839420']
being born in 1952 I was there, and at the time to was convinced it was a musical masterpiece, it was only a few years later that I came to the conclusion, that in my view, it wasn't, I'd been taken in by all the hype,
[/quote]

This. if you weren't there you wont understand the effect of Beatlemania hype of the time. It was after all, the first time the UK had been subjected to it to any real extent, young and old alike went for it hook line and sinker.
Some people who were ther still believe it.

[indiegrungesound]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1438986150' post='2839296']
not all Peppers is bad, I don't think Keef was saying that, I too like a day in a life and the Sgt Peppers reprise (it rocks) can't stand Mr Kite When I'm 64 and that bloody Harrison Indian thing, not keen on With a Little Help Fron My'Friends either, although I do admit to the hairs on the back of my neck standing up when Ringo joined Macca on stage recently to sing it
[/quote]
Fair enough. Though I have to say "that bloody Harrison Indian thing" is something I've always liked, whilst I REALLY love the tone of the bassline on "...Mr Kite"!
+10 for agreeing with me on "A Day in the Life" though!:-)

[leschirons]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1439031353' post='2839492']
This. if you weren't there you wont understand the effect of Beatlemania hype of the time. It was after all, the first time the UK had been subjected to it to any real extent, young and old alike went for it hook line and sinker.
Some people who were ther still believe it.
[/quote]

You make it sound as if it was a pure con job and that people were fooled into liking them. Not exactly Milli Vanilli were they

[BassTractor]

I too was there, and thought it was overwhelmingly fantastic on first listen. After that first listen though, I prefer Rubber Soul, Revolver, Abbey Road and that Phil Spector wall-of-sound thingy.
Will give it a new spin though, as I still did buy the CD.

[chris_b]

Otis Redding wrote Dock Of The Bay, a complete change in gear and direction for him, after listening to Sgt Pepper and Brian Holland used to go home after a day at Motown and listen to Beatles records for inspiration.

Brian Wilson said he felt in a battle with The Beatles to produce the best music, and was feeling confident until he heard Stg Pepper. Then he knew they'd won.

Liking or hating this record doesn't change anything. Sgt Pepper is in the top 3 most influential albums of any time. I saw the before and after effect so I think it's at No1.

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1439032153' post='2839505']
You make it sound as if it was a pure con job and that people were fooled into liking them. Not exactly Milli Vanilli were they
[/quote]

No, just that the world was a very different place. Only a couple of hours a week of 'pop' music on the national radio station, and contrary to what people believe, pirate stations were am, and relatively low power, so couldnt be received by everyone.
The Beatles were on the TV news and in the papers every day. On the covers of what few pop music papers and mags there were every week. and the merch, authorised and otherwise, not being as organised as it is now, really was everywhere, furniture shops, wallpaper shops, sweet shops, electrical shops, clothes shops. Epstein really didnt have a clue about merchandising, I read somewhere that he sold the rights early on for only a few grand.

[leschirons]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1439045254' post='2839630']
No, just that the world was a very different place. Only a couple of hours a week of 'pop' music on the national radio station, and contrary to what people believe, pirate stations were am, and relatively low power, so couldnt be received by everyone.
The Beatles were on the TV news and in the papers every day. On the covers of what few pop music papers and mags there were every week. and the merch, authorised and otherwise, not being as organised as it is now, really was everywhere, furniture shops, wallpaper shops, sweet shops, electrical shops, clothes shops. Epstein really didnt have a clue about merchandising, I read somewhere that he sold the rights early on for only a few grand.
[/quote]

I see your point about the flood of exposure but the Beatles were not the only huge attraction at that time. (1967) Floyd had arrived, Hendrix, Cream, The Who, The Beach boys and The Moody Blues. All these names had hit it big. There were plenty of names to fill our time up. Their success (The Beatles) was due to a highly original concept album but I guess there was loads of hype around that time re the India thing too.

I seem to remember a lot more than 2 hours radio a week full of great music and there was a name gig on every street corner. Music fans really only bought the Melody Maker or NME. I guess there were "fanzines" at the time but I don't remember them.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1438893448' post='2838550']
Probably, but I still like it because of what it meant to me at that stage of my life and the happy memories it represents . Pop music, as dear old Frank Zappa said,[b]is music to dress up to[/b]. It doesn't matter if it's high art or not.
[/quote]

Here's what Zappa thought of Sgt. Pepper's



It's said that Zappa/Mother's album Freak Out was an influence on Sgt. Pepper's. In that McCartney heard it and asked the band whether they could do something similar. Sgt. Pepper's is probably The Beatles most important album, though a good case can be made for Revolver. In my opinion, Abbey Road is their best album.

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1439052451' post='2839687']
I see your point about the flood of exposure but the Beatles were not the only huge attraction at that time. (1967) Floyd had arrived, Hendrix, Cream, The Who, The Beach boys and The Moody Blues. All these names had hit it big. There were plenty of names to fill our time up. Their success (The Beatles) was due to a highly original concept album but I guess there was loads of hype around that time re the India thing too.

I seem to remember a lot more than 2 hours radio a week full of great music and there was a name gig on every street corner. Music fans really only bought the Melody Maker or NME. I guess there were "fanzines" at the time but I don't remember them.
[/quote]

Sgt Pepper came out in 67 didnt it ? During the school summer hols iirc. That would be towards the end of the main Beatlemania period. Only them, Elvis and The Stones were in that class as huge attractions, and Elvis had been waning for a while by then. People like Floyd, Hendrix and Cream were not as mainstream, toddlers to grannies, everybody liked the Beatles.
Whether it was great marketing or luck, there was something for everyone on Beatles LPs. Yellow Submarine, When I'm 64 etc.

I often wonder whether the Stones would have been so popular if it wasnt for the Stone vs Beatles rivalry among kids at the time.

Radio 1 Started during term time, so that would have been September maybe. So other than Pirate stations, if you could get them and Luxenburg at night, there was little on the Light Program to interest kids, Uncle Mac, Saturday Club, Pick of The Pops, that was it. And even less on the 3 monochrome TV channels, most people didnt have BBC2, so thats two channels. TOTP, and RSG. that was it. Fanzines - I dont remember either, but there was one called FAB, the there were girls comics like Jackie and suchlike. which often had giveaway Beatles 'records' - sort of floppy flexible 45RPM discs inside.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Slipperydick

[kevvo66]

I have all the Beatles albums ,but only the best of the stones and that was a free gift on cd ,never really got the stones

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='kodiakblair' timestamp='1438853474' post='2837949']
Keef really said it was crap just like Satanic Majesties " they saw us do a load of s**te and thought they could do the same "
[/quote]

Comedy gold TBH. The beatles were a statistical anomaly, kind of inverse black swan, four people each with the talent to write enduring hit songs by the bucketload in the same band. In terms of concentration of raw talent the only other band I would put in the same league is Queen. Its funny that the stones think they are anything close to that level of musical depth and ability.

[SteveK]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1439054490' post='2839701']
Whether it was [b]great marketing or luck[/b], there was something for everyone on Beatles LPs. Yellow Submarine, When I'm 64 etc.
[/quote]
I think you may have ommited something... oh yeah... the hugest dollop of talent!

[Marvin]

It's the number of 'big names' that reference The Beatles and Sgt.Peppers that, for me, can't be ignored.

I'm not a big Beatles fan, I like some of there stuff and Sgt.P isn't my favourite of their albums, however, it's and their influence are undeniable.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1439228574' post='2841082']
The beatles were a statistical anomaly, kind of inverse black swan, four people each with the talent to write enduring hit songs by the bucketload in the same band.
[/quote]

I'll take second to no man in my admiration of The Beatles, but I simply cannot imagine which bucket load of enduring hit songs was written by Ringo.

[Billy Apple]

I was never a big Beatles fan, but I had a retrospective listen to Revolver. It all sounds a bit twee and I remembered what it was I don't like about the Beatles. At least the Stones put a bit of oomph into things.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1439238756' post='2841243']
I'll take second to no man in my admiration of The Beatles, but I simply cannot imagine which bucket load of enduring hit songs was written by Ringo.


[/quote]

It's not that he [i]did[/i], just that he had the [i]talent [/i]to, if he'd [i]wanted [/i]to..!