Jazz related frustration!

[Bilbo]

We have all seen that 'electric bass in Jazz' threads that appear here intermittently but, eb v db discussions aside, it has recently occured to me how rarely we get to play with a real acoustic piano, even an upright instrument, never mind a proper grand piano.

Since I took up the double bass (about 5 years now?), I have played in an ensemble with a pianist only twice. Once in a recording studio (grand) and once on a gig at The Fleece in Stoke By Nayland (upright). Modern electric pianos are very good but it's a shame that more venues cannot accommodate the Real McCoy. I am sure it would improve the audiences if they could hear acoustic Jazz played 'properly'.

[ambient]

You're so right.

I've only played with a 'real' piano once, that was last year in a studio in a university in London last summer.

The feel is totally different. You get more sustain in the piano, that you don't with an electric instrument, the body of the piano resonates.

I love hearing guys like Bill Evans play.

[Earbrass]

As an erstwhile blues/jazz pianist, let me put the other side of the case. Yes, it would be great if every venue could provide a well-tuned, well-maintained baby grand for the visiting pianist to use, but the reality in my experience is very far from this. Where a "house" piano is present, at least in the smaller venues, pubs etc in which most of us play, it is all too often neglected, out of tune and with the odd dodgy key. No fun at all. Imagine if, as a double-bass player, instead of bringing your own instrument you had to use whatever the venue could provide - probably something that has sat in the corner for months without use and had the odd beer spilled over it from time to time. From my point of view, the advent of portable, good-sounding electric stage pianos was a god-send.

[bassace]

Yes, it's a pity there aren't more steam pianos. I work with one only once in a blue moon. There's a very nice full size grand at the Castle Studio, Wellingborough which all the piano players love. When we fetched up there for a gig not long ago it was being tuned. The guy proudly said that the piano was tuned every time it was moved. To which our drummer completely let the side down by saying 'well, don't keep moving it then!' - drummers.

There is just one small downside, apart from the out of tuners, if a band isn't used to working with pianos regularly they might not have the mics/mounts. The piano strings present quite a wide area to mic evenly.

[alibabu]

When I play jazz in smaller venues, without using PA, I much prefer playing with an acoustic piano or grand piano (The usual ifs apply, regarding tuning and maintenance). However, if the piano needs mic-ing and amplification to be heard, I actually prefer the much more controlled sound of a good electric, like Clavia Nord's. It is easier for the sound guy, and in many cases sound better and eliminates the risk of feedback through the piano mics. Of course, when you move into the pro league where the stage conditions and microphone and PA budget allows for the best equipment available, the real thing beats an electric any day.

Disclaimer: I don't play the upright, I only play the electric ehhrrm... leftright( rightright?) bass.

[BassTractor]

When I still played piano for jazz bands as a dep, before I got an electronic piano module, I used to lug around a huge and heavy Fender Rhodes electric piano as a back-up solution for a possibly bad local piano.
Normally the piano at the venue was OK though.

Once or twice the band leader actually commanded me to use a local, bad piano in preference above my perfect Rhodes - - something I've never really understood.


BTW for those interested:
Rhodes and Wurlitzer = electric, Nord = electronic.

[bassace]

Some phrases that fill me with dread when I turn up for a gig:-

The acoustics here are great. You wont need an amplifier.

We've got a very good piano. The members like the band to use it.

[alibabu]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1439199345' post='2840655']
BTW for those interested:
Rhodes and Wurlitzer = electric, Nord = electronic.
[/quote]

You are right, the Nord piano should not be referred to as electric, although it has pretty good samples of the Rhodes and other electrics as well.
Sorry about the confusion, english is not my first language. But after looking up on Wikipedia, isn't Digital piano the correct term for the Nord piano, and neither electric or electronic?

[Bilbo]

Semantics, guys. Not the point. It's not acoustic!! Electric, electronic, electrical? It's not what it is that matters here but what it isn't.

[alibabu]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1439202420' post='2840695']
Semantics, guys. Not the point. It's not acoustic!! Electric, electronic, electrical? It's not what it is that matters here but what it isn't.
[/quote]
Hehe. So back on topic then. When you use the term "acoustic", does that also imply "un-amplified"? In that case, I understand what you mean. But my point is that if you take a half decent piano and amplify that in a band situation, you very often lose both the sonic qualities of the instrument and the finer nuances that are the main arguments for keeping it all-acoustic, and add a lot of unwanted noise and reverberations. Then I would actually prefer using an electr-something, where the samples are recorded from the best instruments, using the best microphones available.
I also wonder what you mean by "improving" the audience?

[Bilbo]

Having spent the first few years of my Jazz career playing regularly at The Four Bars Inn in Cardiff (the original venue, not the one at the Sandringham Hotel), I woudl argue that the presence of a perfectly credible piano that was rarely moved, a decent PA and a couple of PZMs for miking the instrument, you can improve the experience for all parties, thereby improving the attraction of attendance. We regularly hosted solo pianists and piano players in trio and they sounded wonderful. You can't call guys like Liam Noble and the like and expect them to bring a NORD!! I am not expecting anything to change for the better in this regard but I thought it was worth highlighting what a shame it is that these kinds of venues which cater properly for instrumentalists whose instrument is not portable are not more common.