using other bands gear...

[gjones]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1439226969' post='2841045']
This is basically a "what would you do" question but needs quite a bit of explaining. Here's my post from Daily Annoyances thread which does so :

Booked for a multi-band gig type thing. Used this 'promoter' before and had no issues. This time however has been quite different. Picked up the tickets for it last week and messaged one of the people working there asking if backline is provided as we were under the impression that it was but weren't 100% sure. Waited 3 days to get a reply that was less than helpful but it basically said "full backline minus breakables provide but can you bring your own guitar and bass amps?". Replied saying no we couldn't but will cabs/drum kit and P.A be provided? to which I still haven't had a reply. So I phoned the events manager today who said backline is to be provided by the bands. None of my band drive so taking gear from one place to another isn't easy (especially if it's cabinets/the guitar amps).

This wouldn't be an issue if any of us drove and had our own gear that was to a standard of being able to be gigged (I don't even have a cab as there's no point when I can't transport it from home to gig!). I'm mostly annoyed at the lack of professionalism by the promoter as the other bands that are on that night were also under the assumption that backline would be provided (one band were even told not to bring any gear!).

No backline being provided for established bands is understandable as they will often be in a position to afford and transport equipment but when it's a gig that's being put on for local/small/unsigned type bands it's almost a given that these bands can't always afford full gigging equipment.

Okay now you've read that the promoter finally replied today simply saying "I'll get another band to supply equipment." But quite frankly I don't really feel comfortable using other bands gear for the same fact I don't feel comfortable other bands using my gear. I certainly don't want to have to allow other bands to use my amp head. Even excluding the fact I don't want to risk other people breaking it, I don't even know if I'll be able to stay in the venue till the other bands are even finished due to bus/train times!

Ideally I don't want to cancel the gig as I think we have quite a few people coming but I don't really feel comfortable with the way it's been conducted. What would you do in my situation?
[/quote]

Get the promoter to call this lot http://www.esp-musicrentals.co.uk/

[uncle psychosis]

You don't need a car to take a giggable rig to a gig.

Gig bag on back, lightweight combo or small cab in one hand, bag with everything else you need in other hand. I've done it.

Plus, as a bass player if there's a pa you don't "need" backline. DI box (ideally with Preamp) and you're fine.

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1439244688' post='2841323']
You don't need a car to take a giggable rig to a gig.

Gig bag on back, lightweight combo or small cab in one hand, bag with everything else you need in other hand. I've done it.

Plus, as a bass player if there's a pa you don't "need" backline. DI box (ideally with Preamp) and you're fine.
[/quote]

Definitely doable however a complete and total faff as well as I quite frankly find it a pain to take the bass (mono case is pretty bulky on rush hour busses), amp and a pedalboard, as well as it doesn't sound like it would do my (already screwed up) back any good!

[urbanx]

Lol, I'm guessing when the promoter said "Backline will be provided" what they mean is "Backline will be provided....by you"! lol.

There's no way I could operate on borrowed gear. I'm not very fussy and I still spent days researching and atrying amps to get what was perfect just for me.

Do the gig, it's a good learning curve - Knowing what you now know about the 'promoters' organisational skills, you should be a lot more prepared for how the timings on the night will probably go!

[mcnach]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1439226969' post='2841045']
This is basically a "what would you do" question but needs quite a bit of explaining. Here's my post from Daily Annoyances thread which does so :

Booked for a multi-band gig type thing. Used this 'promoter' before and had no issues. This time however has been quite different. Picked up the tickets for it last week and messaged one of the people working there asking if backline is provided as we were under the impression that it was but weren't 100% sure. Waited 3 days to get a reply that was less than helpful but it basically said "full backline minus breakables provide but can you bring your own guitar and bass amps?". Replied saying no we couldn't but will cabs/drum kit and P.A be provided? to which I still haven't had a reply. So I phoned the events manager today who said backline is to be provided by the bands. None of my band drive so taking gear from one place to another isn't easy (especially if it's cabinets/the guitar amps).

This wouldn't be an issue if any of us drove and had our own gear that was to a standard of being able to be gigged (I don't even have a cab as there's no point when I can't transport it from home to gig!). I'm mostly annoyed at the lack of professionalism by the promoter as the other bands that are on that night were also under the assumption that backline would be provided (one band were even told not to bring any gear!).

No backline being provided for established bands is understandable as they will often be in a position to afford and transport equipment but when it's a gig that's being put on for local/small/unsigned type bands it's almost a given that these bands can't always afford full gigging equipment.

Okay now you've read that the promoter finally replied today simply saying "I'll get another band to supply equipment." But quite frankly I don't really feel comfortable using other bands gear for the same fact I don't feel comfortable other bands using my gear. I certainly don't want to have to allow other bands to use my amp head. Even excluding the fact I don't want to risk other people breaking it, I don't even know if I'll be able to stay in the venue till the other bands are even finished due to bus/train times!

Ideally I don't want to cancel the gig as I think we have quite a few people coming but I don't really feel comfortable with the way it's been conducted. What would you do in my situation?
[/quote]


It's a tough one.

The 'hard ass' guy in me thinks that if you want to gig, you need to have the equipment to do so (and a way to transport it, whether it is your own car, or a friend who helps or whatever). The idea that younger bands are somehow expected to be given a free ride seems weird to me. Even when I was a lot younger!

It really isn't that costly, when it comes to gear. My first bass amp was not a MarkBass or Genz Benz. My first amp was a Behringer BX4500T head, and a matching 2x10 cab that I bought used for the princely sum of £100, about 7 years ago. Was it excellent? No. But it made suitable noises and kept me going. You don't need to spend a lot to own equipment that works.

Transport etc is a tougher one. And basically, if you can't transport your gear, you're going to either forget about gigging until you can, or compromise a lot: either only play gigs that are close enough and accessible enough, or open your mind to sharing what you do have so that you can borrow what you don't. Both are quite limiting: when you borrow you may not like what you end up playing with (sometimes it's terrible), and when lending you often become a hostage and have to wait for others to finish using your stuff.

It sucks, but if you cannot afford to use your own gear, what other options are there?
If you think it sucks but better that than no gigs, then suck it up, sigh, and proceed

If not... wait until you're ready.

I bought a little combo (MarkBass CMD121p) because it's easily transportable, takes little space and nobody objects to your bringing that when there's already another big amp on stage, and it works very well as a stage monitor. I very rarely share these days. I do have transport and that's not a problem, but space is sometimes... so I can show up with my little combo to those gigs, play, and go. It's not a big problem anyway in teh kind of gigs I normally play, but sometimes we do play those multiband gigs and are asked that bands sort out their backline shares. Frankly, I don't think we should encourage those gigs. A drum kit takes time to set up, ok, I get that. But amps? Really? How long does it take people to set up? The days where a big bass cab was the only way are long gone. Nice when we can have it, but not *needed*. So if guitar combos are ok to bring in and out, so are bass rigs, they're not that much bigger... and if they are, that's teh owner's problem! If they're happy to move it about, fantastic. I was once asked by a Glasgow band we were suporting to use my amp (coming from Edinburgh) because their bass amp was a 410 combo and was heavy, and it was hard to park near the venue. The cheek! How did they think I was arriving? And if your amp is too heavy for you... get a smaller one! Nah, that day I needed to leave right after the gig because... I don't know, I needed to wash my hair or something. Their amp showed up onstage without trouble. Sorry, but a lot of people are just lazy and/or want the freedom to walk about without gear, so they save transport, they can drink etc...
Get your priorities right. I'm not playing ball. And you know what? We don't struggle to get gigs

Ok, rant over!

So, to the OP: I really sympathise, I really do. And if you and I end up in the same bill, I will happily share with you even if I don't yet know you personally. I do share. Several members here have played through my gear. But I share with people I know or like or respect or all of the three.
I know how it feels to depend on others for transport/gear... I'm afraid you'll have to compromise and share a bit if you need gear too, or make sure you only do gigs where everything you need is already provided. There are a few of those too, but obviously you'll be somewhat limited in teh number of gigs you can take. If I were you, I'd save to get some small lightweight cab as soon as possible, something you may use as a stage monitor and can carry easily in a foldable trolley (or in your hand, but trolleys are great to walk around with cabs). Most gigs you will have PA to reinforce your bass, so you only really need a stage monitor. You can then easily take a taxi (share it), or bus (it'll be hard, but not impossible... ask Londoners! a lot of them use public transport for gigs)... and consider getting a new band member who owns a big car or a van

Good luck!

[bertbass]

You might find that the insurance is a lot cheaper on a van than a car and a van is a lot more musician friendly.

[Dan Dare]

Coming at it from the other side of the equation - i.e. I have decent kit, which has cost me plenty of hard earned - I never consent to others using my gear (and, to be fair, I don't expect to use theirs), unless it's someone I know. I'd say best to refuse the job and put your ambitions on hold until you have the necessary.

[CamdenRob]

This is an inevitable part of playing in an originals band on multi band gigs. The ideal situation is either full backline provided and all bands use the same setup or kit is provided (minus breakables) and bass / guitar etc bring their own amps/cabs. It really doesn't take that long to change an amp over if things are organised in the storage area with the next amp to go up ready set up at the front etc.

The trouble with gear sharing is that I've played with so many other bands who's bass player is not only clueless but also literally couldn't give a sh*t about breaking my gear... bass on ten, gain on ten, volume on ten. I spent alot of money on my setup and I'm not really up for some neanderthall setting up his fuzz pedals in front of it and cranking everything up to ten (even less so with my guitar amp as it's all valve and delicate).

There is however no escape from it... the other option is never playing any gigs and that kind of defeats the object of being in an originals band. The situation is not going to change anytime soon, so i'm now at the point where I am tempted to go out and buy something old, cheap, sh*t and indestructable and use that as my backline when I have to gear share. I generally DI anyway so its just used as a monitor most of the time.

Edited August 11, 2015 by CamdenRob

[Beer of the Bass]

One positive thing about these gigs is that they tend to put everything through the PA and you may be surprised at just how little amp you can get away with. A few years ago when I was in a similar no-transport situation I used to use a little Ashdown 1x12" tiltback combo and it did the job just fine. More recently I've done a few with my EA Wizzy 10 cab sat on a chair. While feeling the lows from a big rig might have been nice, I could hear myself OK, everything sounded good out front and the gigs went well.
Also, if at least one of the band (or even a friend or partner) is a driver and has had their licence for more than a year you may find it cheaper to use a basic rental car or small van rather than owning a vehicle if you're just gigging occasionally.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Beer of the Bass

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1439236269' post='2841205']
Plus, inevitably if the headliners have provided it all, many of the other bands then go home once their set is over. Having a bit from each is a good way of stopping this.
[/quote]

if you depend on holding other bands hostage to have an audience... something is wrong there. I never understood that rationale.

My first gig with one of my first bands we had... seriously, less than 10 people, and 4 of them must have been friends of ours. We were the first band, very early, on a Sunday.
In time, that changed. It happens, and it's ok. I'd hate to think people are there because they're just waiting for me to finish so that they can get to their amp that they lent to me.

[mcnach]

[quote name='smaz' timestamp='1439237569' post='2841222']
I had a gig not long ago where once we'd finished soundchecking, the next bass player asked me if he could borrow my amp as he didn't have one. I was a little annoyed, but I couldn't say no - my gear was there, set up. But to then ask me if he could borrow a cable too, as he didn't bring one of them... C'mon, at least make an effort or ask in advance. I almost offered to play the gig for him, too.
[/quote]

you should have!

[quote name='smaz' timestamp='1439237569' post='2841222']
I don't expect every bass player from every band we play with to have fantastic gear, transport, or whatever else - but I expect them to make an effort in making sure the gear situation is covered. Turning up unprepared is poor form.
[/quote]

exactly.
That's what gets to me, how often people act as if they were entitled to stuff... I stopped being generally helpful with sharing when I was feeling that I was just being a fool, and taken for granted.

[quote name='smaz' timestamp='1439237569' post='2841222']
It sounds like you've done the right thing in trying to find out what's going on & making sure there's gear there. Just be honest with the other guys, offer to help if there's any way you can and always thank whoever leant you their gear. If it's the headline band & you've got a train to catch, just say - I'd rather someone say to me that they have a bus to catch, than disappear.
[/quote]

voice of reason here, well said.

[mcnach]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1439244688' post='2841323']
You don't need a car to take a giggable rig to a gig.

Gig bag on back, lightweight combo or small cab in one hand, bag with everything else you need in other hand. I've done it.

Plus, as a bass player if there's a pa you don't "need" backline. DI box (ideally with Preamp) and you're fine.
[/quote]

That's true! if it comes it it... Preamp+DI box will do. Only you'll be at the mercy of whatever monitoring there is available for bass, which is generally poor in that kind of gig. A small combo is ideal, but you can do without *if* you have to.

[Phil Starr]

Lot's of sympathy from me, you know what you need but when you are young you just can't afford it. You'll just have to do the gig with whatever is there. Until you have your own gear you have no choice. Music is full of dreamers and very few really good organisers so this isn't anything new. In my student days I used to organise this sort of event but would get one of the bands to share their gear and that would be set up on stage and used to sound check, they got the best sound and the best slot in return for their generosity. If anyone else wanted to use their own stuff they had to fit in around the stuff on stage.

It is unprofessional not to be able to provide your own gear, but you have to get there somehow and turning down gigs wont help. You can get a usable backline amp for probably £100 if you aren't too fussy. Make it a priority but in the meantime play all the gigs you can and smile sweetly at the crap. keep the enthusiasm and deal with problems one at a time.

Good luck.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1439244933' post='2841325']
Definitely doable however a complete and total faff as well as I quite frankly find it a pain to take the bass (mono case is pretty bulky on rush hour busses), amp and a pedalboard, as well as it doesn't sound like it would do my (already screwed up) back any good!
[/quote]

Get your girlfriend more interested in the band, then you'll have a spare set of hands!



My gf has helped me tear down a few times... she gets some interesting looks when she approaches the Barefaced Compact and lifts it as if it were an empty box. People assume it's heavy and that she's SuperWoman. She enjoys that

[hairychris]

I'm definitely used to cabinet and drum kit sharing. I've played a lot of low-budget shows with 15 minute gaps between sets that makes full kit changeover difficult.

I'm happy sharing my own cab/s if asked in advance, but amps and other stuff? Nope...

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1439292032' post='2841553']
Lot's of sympathy from me, you know what you need but when you are young you just can't afford it. You'll just have to do the gig with whatever is there. Until you have your own gear you have no choice. Music is full of dreamers and very few really good organisers so this isn't anything new. In my student days I used to organise this sort of event but would get one of the bands to share their gear and that would be set up on stage and used to sound check, they got the best sound and the best slot in return for their generosity. If anyone else wanted to use their own stuff they had to fit in around the stuff on stage.

It is unprofessional not to be able to provide your own gear, but you have to get there somehow and turning down gigs wont help. You can get a usable backline amp for probably £100 if you aren't too fussy. Make it a priority but in the meantime play all the gigs you can and smile sweetly at the crap. keep the enthusiasm and deal with problems one at a time.

Good luck.
[/quote]

Pfft... comming in here with your positivity, understanding and encouragement...

[Lozz196]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1439291561' post='2841542']
if you depend on holding other bands hostage to have an audience... something is wrong there. I never understood that rationale.
[/quote]

It`s not so much of that, but the lack of manners really - sure everyone has a time when they need to scoot, but inevitably I`ve found bands who turn up with no gear expecting to use the headliners gear just turn up, play, then leave. I find it a little rude tbh, as also inevitably those bands rarely say thanks either.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1439309929' post='2841794']
It`s not so much of that, but the lack of manners really - sure everyone has a time when they need to scoot, but inevitably I`ve found bands who turn up with no gear expecting to use the headliners gear just turn up, play, then leave. I find it a little rude tbh, as also inevitably those bands rarely say thanks either.
[/quote]

ah, I understand that, yeah.

[JTUK]

As far as I'm concerned you can either cover the gig or you can't. If you can't you need to take steps that make sure you can
do what you need to do, If that is making sure you have access to kit or can borrow it, then that is down to you.

Personally I wouldn't take the chance of someone not lending me any kit..so i'd arrange that before hand.

If you can't do simple stuff like this,,,, then I guess you'll have to wing it...and take pot luck. But then, you can surely not complain
if things don't work out if you don't take simple steps in the first place.

I get that some people don't have much money etc ..and you can be sympathetic and want to help, but the person also needs to help himself.

If the first thing they say is, hey mate, can I lend your XXXXX or whatever, probably think someone is taking the mick and react accordingly.

[el borracho]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1439283915' post='2841460']

It really isn't that costly, when it comes to gear. My first bass amp was not a MarkBass or Genz Benz. My first amp was a Behringer BX4500T head, and a matching 2x10 cab that I bought used for the princely sum of £100, about 7 years ago. Was it excellent? No. But it made suitable noises and kept me going. You don't need to spend a lot to own equipment that works.

[/quote]

I too started at the budget end 30 years ago - Ibanez Blazer (didn't comprehend at the time how good it was), old Carlsbro head, homemade (by somebody) cab and an old Mini with the passenger seat taken out to fit the cab in!
The OP on the other hand has an ACG but no cab???? All your eggs in one basket I think

[tauzero]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1439318602' post='2841904']
As far as I'm concerned you can either cover the gig or you can't. If you can't you need to take steps that make sure you can
do what you need to do, If that is making sure you have access to kit or can borrow it, then that is down to you.

Personally I wouldn't take the chance of someone not lending me any kit..so i'd arrange that before hand.
[/quote]

I think it's also far more polite to sort it out in advance than to turn up and ask. Drummers need to as not every one will have the same idea of "breakables" and some won't want their stands adjusted to other people's requirements.

[LayDownThaFunk]

Yes, definitely make arrangements before getting to the venue. Don't go through the promoter, ask the other bands direct preferably in a group message. Strictly speaking, the headline band provides backline to help switch around times but never assume this! Also, headline band would be first to soundcheck so makes most sense for them to provide the gear.

Just being courteous and polite to other bands goes a long way. You won't have to do that awkward shuffle towards the other bands before your soundcheck - "Er, alright mate. Can I, er, use your amp?" Most the time there will be monitors anyway so bass players find it much more appealing when you say I won't be touching your amp settings because I have a DI pedal to use for our set.

[mrtcat]

[quote name='el borracho' timestamp='1439328305' post='2842007']
an old Mini with the passenger seat taken out to fit the cab in!
[/quote]

Haha that's exactly what I did. Sometimes my girlfriend had to sit in the back seat while my trace combo sat in the spot where her seat should have been lol.