Struggling

[Twincam]

I'm struggling on certain uptempo songs and making things sound right. If I can nail the tune at a slower tempo it's fine till the tempo goes up.
Take hit me with your rhythm stick I can play it fine at lower tempo but can't get it to sound right at its correct tempo.
Lots of funk songs I can play ok but soon as the tempo goes up I struggle it's not the speed I struggle with although I'm not a fast player naturally.
I just don't seem to have the funk.

Maybe it's a practice thing as I'm definitely more inspired by say Motown, or classic rock and punk so I tend to play that type of thing. And can play at any speed no problem.
I want to be well rounded but certain style doesn't seem to Suit me.

[RhysP]

Do you have to play "Rhythm Stick" in a gigging band?
If not then why beat yourself up over not playing it properly?

I've been playing bass for 36 years, I've never bothered with Rhythm Stick as I f***ing hate the song. Just because it seems to be some kind of bass players rite of passage thing has never been a good enough reason to learn stuff I can't stand.

I most certainly don't have "The Funk", but as I don't like or listen to funk music I've never regarded it as a problem....

Edited August 15, 2015 by RhysP

[Twincam]

No I don't have to gig it. But I do like the tune and feel its something I would like to learn. And if I learnt to play certain styles correct it would better me as a player.

I guess I'm striving to reach a certain standard, which isn't that high so feeling a bit frustrated again. I nail one technique to find there a whole lot more to learn.

I would never want to really play funk music in a band so to say but I do like listening to it.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Twincam

[odysseus]

Dunno if you got Guitar Pro software, but it has a speed-trainer function where you can loop parts of a score and it speeds up from and to speeds of your choosing, and enables you to select the number of loops at each speed. With a difficult piece I always make sure I can practice it at a speed greater than the original in order to give me wiggle room when it comes to live playing. Take your time and get it right at the lower speeds first. You'll get it where it needs to be in time!

[JTUK]

It sounds like you are picking a track to impress rather than one that suits your style...

For me, there are certain things, style or music that don't tend to cross over.

Punk isn't funk... Prog isn't funk and even blues bass players aren't funky.
Huge generalisations but what you listen to gives you empathy....

For example... slapping a Flea part doesn't make you funky but
the vast majority would probably assume it is...

It is more a question of you are funky rather than want tobe..and funk catches you out more than most.

Same as reggae...you eiter have it or you don't, but you can't easiliy just play at it.

However, saying all that... this also sounds like a technical limitation as well and you can try too hard
to learn the part and not have it flow at all.
What you need to do is get to a stage where you can make the part work rather than try and rip it completely and utterly.

R stick, along with Forget me nots, Hysteria et al are often all played for the wrong reasons.
Stay away from them unless it is just a technical excercise, but you'll not want to play them in front of people..
as they are 'judgemental' tracks.. IMO, so you have to do them great or not go near them...

[Marvin]

Find something else to play, move on and come back to it in a few months.

[JapanAxe]

How hard are you plucking the strings? Although I'm not the fastest of players either, I have found that using a [i]lighter[/i] right hand touch helps me to play with more speed and fluidity. Playing hard (a punk trait if ever there was one) can make you tense up, and thus slow you down.

If there's a piece I don't need to nail for a gig, but would still like to conquer anyway, the dots go into my 'Bass Challenge' folder (and I maintain a corresponding iTunes playlist). In my practice time I will sometimes pick out a song from the folder and have another go at it. If I crack it it goes in my general alphabetical song folders (yes I am that organised), otherwise it stays in there for another day. A few pieces have made the transition. The latest song to get the treatment is the Jacksons' 'I Want You Back'. It's still in the 'Bass Challenge' folder, but not for much longer I reckon.

[Guest bassman7755]

This may or may not help but ... the trick with playing fast (that I learnt on guitar and carried over to bass) is to appreciate the simple physics of the situation. Your fingers can only move at a certain speed which I guess most people max out on after playing for a couple of years and therefore to play more notes in the same amount of time your fingers have therefore to move less distance between each note. It applies to both right and left hand, play something slowly and see if you can eliminate any unnecessary movement. +1 to japanaxe's comment about a light touch as well.

[Twincam]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1439659168' post='2844776']
How hard are you plucking the strings? Although I'm not the fastest of players either, I have found that using a [i]lighter[/i] right hand touch helps me to play with more speed and fluidity. Playing hard (a punk trait if ever there was one) can make you tense up, and thus slow you down.

If there's a piece I don't need to nail for a gig, but would still like to conquer anyway, the dots go into my 'Bass Challenge' folder (and I maintain a corresponding iTunes playlist). In my practice time I will sometimes pick out a song from the folder and have another go at it. If I crack it it goes in my general alphabetical song folders (yes I am that organised), otherwise it stays in there for another day. A few pieces have made the transition. The latest song to get the treatment is the Jacksons' 'I Want You Back'. It's still in the 'Bass Challenge' folder, but not for much longer I reckon.
[/quote]
[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1439667523' post='2844881']
This may or may not help but ... the trick with playing fast (that I learnt on guitar and carried over to bass) is to appreciate the simple physics of the situation. Your fingers can only move at a certain speed which I guess most people max out on after playing for a couple of years and therefore to play more notes in the same amount of time your fingers have therefore to move less distance between each note. It applies to both right and left hand, play something slowly and see if you can eliminate any unnecessary movement. +1 to japanaxe's comment about a light touch as well.
[/quote]

Both good points. I think something that holds me back on speed is my muting and floating thumb technique which is fairly robust. And I try play very clean, even if I'm not clean I'm trying. That does lead to those slight milliseconds adding up.

[ambient]

Best thing is to break the line down to one section/bar/riff/part-riff at a time.

Even if it's just a couple of beats/half a bar at a time, get that bit right, then move onto the next bit, etc.

Maybe get a teacher, and work on songs that you want to do with him/her. A good teacher should be able to see where you're going wrong, and help to correct that.

[Truckstop]

Try muting with the left hand (assuming you're right-handed) to achieve the staccato effect Norman gets. Otherwise it all sounds too 'fluid'. The funk's in the stops!

[SteveK]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1439653624' post='2844714']
Do you have to play "Rhythm Stick" in a gigging band?
If not then why beat yourself up over not playing it properly?
[/quote]
[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1439658157' post='2844771']
Find something else to play, move on and come back to it in a few months.
[/quote]
I've always lived my musical life by the philosophy, "nothing will beat me". IMV Twincam is right to agonise over it, he wants to be a "well rounded" musician.
Stick with it Twincam, ambient's idea to break the bass line up into shorter segments is good. Start at a slow tempo and gradually increase. It may take several weeks to get it sounding anything like slick, but as you practice and generally improve your chops, so will your rendition of "Rhythm Stick".

[JTUK]

I don't see any LH muting in the way he plays it... it is just very smooth RH alternate plucking with fingers.

RS is supposedly NWR's nod to Jaco but there is a world of diffeence between the two...Jaco was a master LH mute,
Still a great bassline tho and tricky.. It lends itself to certain types of player if you are going for the rip.

[Marvin]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1439674567' post='2844951']


I've always lived my musical life by the philosophy, "nothing will beat me". IMV Twincam is right to agonise over it, he wants to be a "well rounded" musician.
Stick with it Twincam, ambient's idea to break the bass line up into shorter segments is good. Start at a slow tempo and gradually increase. It may take several weeks to get it sounding anything like slick, but as you practice and generally improve your chops, so will your rendition of "Rhythm Stick".
[/quote]

I didn't suggest the OP give up. Sometimes putting a song to one side, maybe learning other material or finding a way of practising certain techniques can provide an insight into something that you've been struggling with previous...a different context can help. Constantly trying to master something that is seemingly allusive can be self defeating, best to know when to take a break.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Marvin

[Funky Dunky]

Another trick to nailing HMWYRS is to practice getting the transitional sections fluid - ie the position shifts. That was the hardest part for me, gave those sections their own dedicated practice time. Once i had learned to play all the notes of the piece and slowly, I worked at the right hand plucking, getting that even and up to speed, then I worked at 'joining' those left hand sections together.

It took me ages, I might add.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Try recording yourself practising at different tempos - listen back later and be honest with yourself about what you are hearing, good time, dynamic control and co-ordination between the hands is crucial to make your bass lines feel really solid regardless of tempo or style, and it is much more productive IMHO to focus on good timing than playing faster.

You might also need to take a look at how you are practising - effective practice is more important than just time with the instrument in your hands, but many people fail to make a proper distinction between playing and practising which can really limit their development (IMHO you need to do both and find a balance - practice is work, play should be fun, the benefits of practice should inspire your playing and the joy of playing should inspire you to practice and work on the things you need to improve).

[alyctes]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1439669613' post='2844906']
Best thing is to break the line down to one section/bar/riff/part-riff at a time.

Even if it's just a couple of beats/half a bar at a time, get that bit right, then move onto the next bit, etc.

[/quote]

I agree, but don't move on to the next bit. Move on to the [i]previous[/i] bit.

That is, learn it from the end; start with the [i]last[/i] section. That way, you are always going onward to a bit that you already know. So you avoid the trap of being able to play the first bit really well (because you play it all the time) but stalling on the second.