band fees and free beer

[julietgreen]

We've been offered a NYE gig at what I would consider an unreasonably low fee. It's difficult to explain to the band that it's not good on principle to accept less and less for gigs, not through over-inflated ego, but because it denigrates the whole business and gives people the impression that musicians don't need to get paid much. I know this is an old argument, but what bugs me further, is that we're often given the bonus of '...and free drinks.' For the heavy drinkers in the band, this could amount to an extra £30 - £40 quid's worth, each. For the non-drinkers, it's worthless. Saying anything makes me feel churlish.

Thoughts?

[Lozz196]

You`re spot on - for the heavy drinkers in the band getting say £200 each and spending £40 of that on beer is better than getting £100 each and free beer. Sell it to them that way.

Also agree with not accepting a low-ball offer. NYE is an earner, if the venue itself isn`t charging to get in then I can understand their view here, but if they are, then stick to "real" rates.

[Jazzneck]

Tell 'em the fee you want to be paid and you'll buy your own drinks.

[Acebassmusic]

I think free beer = drunk band = bad gig!

Are they paying their bar staff in beer for the night?

[skankdelvar]

Riders like free beer are useless unless one is prey to the delusion that one is a 'star'. Always better to have the cash in one's pocket.

Imagine it being the other way round and one walked into a pub, ordered a big round then offered to pay by performing an accapella rendition of 'Danny Boy' or possibly 'Sex On Fire'.

[ambient]

It's frankly ridiculous doing a gig for low fees, and getting something else in payment. It only encourages landlords and venues to cut fees back.

A band I play for keeps emailing me about gigs where they have been offered no money, but meals and the passing of a hat around. I tell them no, if I'm playing somewhere then I want money.

I don't drink either

Edited August 16, 2015 by ambient

[rogerstodge]

Free beer would be great if no one is driving, we get that offer all the time and turn it down as we'd only have 1 or two drinks each

[Graham]

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1439748147' post='2845461']
Free beer would be great if no one is driving, we get that offer all the time and turn it down as we'd only have 1 or two drinks each
[/quote]
Exactly this, typically we all drive to gigs, so beyond the singer having maybe one or two, we're all on cokes and water for the set.

Last year around Christmas time I got a lift with the guitarist, as he had to drive past my house to get to the gig anyway and so had a couple of pints on the venue. I found that whilst my performance didn't suffer, I had to concentrate a lot more than usual to play to the required standard, which I found quite stressful.

As a result, I wont drink at gigs now even when I get a lift.

[BottomE]

NYE should be one of the best paid gigs of the year and th venue should offer you free refreshments as a matter of courtesy. I know i live in a dreamland but how difficult is it when you run an establishment selling beverages to provide a few for free to the band?

[Slipperydick]

Pub gaffers know you have to drive, free beer is a con they're using more and more.
One trick at a so called charity event was to give each band member 6 beer tokens half and hour before we went on. As we were on last but one they weren't much use realy. But a punter who was with a crowd of about ten people had bought me a pint earlier, so I collected the 20 tokens we had left, gave them all to him as I left and said fill yer boots mate.
Gaffer wasnt happy about that apparently.

[oldmanrock]

[quote name='Acebassmusic' timestamp='1439747758' post='2845455']
I think free beer = drunk band = bad gig!

Are they paying their bar staff in beer for the night?
[/quote]
Exactly!

[paul_5]

I agree with the majority on this one. NYE is a time to be with family and friends, and to let your hair down. If you're out working then your pay for the night should adequately compensate your inability to do this. Free beer is a con - I can personally name 2 gigging musicians who don't drive, and for whom this might be an attraction. Fortunately they know the value of a pound in your pocket, and don't gig for nowt.

Same reason I don't do charity gigs - everyone else gets paid for their time and effort, musicians are no different; we still have to eat/pay mortgages/maintain gear/pay for school shoes etc...the sooner venues realise this, the better the world will be.

[bigjohn]

If the venue want to pay in beer, that's fair enough, that's their prerogative. As is yours to take the gig or not. It's also yours and their to negotiate.

What's the problem?

[4-string-thing]

Was once offered a gig for free beer.... Some of the others were keen to do it, I pointed out that as we all had to drive to the gig, it was basically play for a few soft drinks. They reckoned we could stay over and get totally bladdered on his "free beer" but after a bit more arguing, turns out the offer was for one free beer each.... We didn't play the gig!

[hubrad]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1439754285' post='2845523']
Pub gaffers know you have to drive, free beer is a con they're using more and more.
One trick at a so called charity event was to give each band member 6 beer tokens half and hour before we went on. As we were on last but one they weren't much use realy. But a punter who was with a crowd of about ten people had bought me a pint earlier, so I collected the 20 tokens we had left, gave them all to him as I left and said fill yer boots mate.
Gaffer wasnt happy about that apparently.
[/quote]
Excellent! :-)

[TimR]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1439750874' post='2845485']
NYE should be one of the best paid gigs of the year and th venue should offer you free refreshments as a matter of courtesy. I know i live in a dreamland but how difficult is it when you run an establishment selling beverages to provide a few for free to the band?
[/quote]

No you don't.

NYE is free soft drinks and a meal and £1k minimum.

Come on guys, please don't lower yourselves out of desperation for a gig.

Sure play a Saturday night or charity gig for whatever you want but nowadays most pubs/clubs NYE is 'tickets in advance' gigs.

[ambient]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1439760842' post='2845613']
I agree with the majority on this one. NYE is a time to be with family and friends, and to let your hair down. If you're out working then your pay for the night should adequately compensate your inability to do this. Free beer is a con - I can personally name 2 gigging musicians who don't drive, and for whom this might be an attraction. Fortunately they know the value of a pound in your pocket, and don't gig for nowt.

Same reason I don't do charity gigs - everyone else gets paid for their time and effort, musicians are no different; we still have to eat/pay mortgages/maintain gear/pay for school shoes etc...the sooner venues realise this, the better the world will be.
[/quote]

I don't agree with charity gigs either. In my experience they're usually a bit of a con, with the landlord/venue using it as a way to entertain his clientele for free. A band I play for has been offered one in December by a Masonic lodge.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1439767013' post='2845661']
No you don't.

NYE is free soft drinks and a meal and £1k minimum.

Come on guys, please don't lower yourselves out of desperation for a gig.

Sure play a Saturday night or charity gig for whatever you want but nowadays most pubs/clubs NYE is 'tickets in advance' gigs.
[/quote]

Totally agree with you, unfortunately there are too many bands out there who fall for the "exposure thing".

[dadofsix]

Nothing wrong with doing shows for charity if the show is done right and the charity is a legitimate one.

<><Peace

[ambient]

[quote name='dadofsix' timestamp='1439778174' post='2845687']
Nothing wrong with doing shows for charity if the show is done right and the charity is a legitimate one.

<><Peace
[/quote]

That's the problem though, in my experience a lot aren't done right, and just seem to be a way for the venue to make money from beer sales etc, and provide some free entertainment for it's members. They'll maybe pass a bucket around with donations going to a charity, that to me at least is not a charity event.

[CamdenRob]

Music is my hobby and I'm more than happy to play for nothing

[bigd1]

We are doing a job, we are employed by the venue to provide music for a set time. Would you accept not being paid from any other employment, or even some money and free whatever?
I find this quite insulting as a musician, I know it happens.
People seem to be under the impression it doesn't cost any thing do what we do.
I agree with what most have said NYE is the biggest earner of the year for the venue, if they want inexpensive entertainment wish them luck with the search.
It's not unreasonable to expect pay for a nights work.

Edited August 17, 2015 by bigd1

[barneyg42]

We have a regular NYE gig that is a notoriously low payer during the year, so much so that we try and restrict how many we do in a year. We're one of his and the locals favourites, not surprisingly as we tend to fill the pub. It's a fun gig and we treat it as such and also try out new material on them. We NEVER get as much as a free beer, soft drink or get a pot put round! Absolutely nothing! He charges for soda water so I tend to bring my own drink as does my GF hidden in her handbag. Only good thing financially is that the gig is only ten minutes drive from her gaff so minimal fuel used. If we want to stay on NYE we have to pay, we do get food from the buffet, but our other halves have to pay the entrance fee for the night!!! Nice touch that! The pay is ok for NYE but with the GF having to pay entrance and the low pay from the gigs in the rest of the year it can leave a bad taste in the mouth! Just ONE free drink, or free soft drinks would go a long way to getting rid of that taste. Unfortunately if nothing else comes in we tend to default to this gig, yes it's a hobby of sorts but we're also not in it to be exploited. Spend thousands on gear, hours on rehearsal, transport, fuel and late nights......and the landlord can't even stretch to a few diet cokes????
Like I say, after a couple of years we wised up and cut the gigs down and try to use them to our advantage!!

[ambient]

[quote name='bigd1' timestamp='1439800899' post='2845770']
We are doing a job, we are employed by the venue to provide music for a set time. Would you accept not being paid from any other employment, or even some money and free whatever?
I find this quite insulting as a musician, I know it happens.
People seem to be under the impression it doesn't cost any thing do what we do.
I agree with what most have said NYE is the biggest earner of the year for the venue, if they want inexpensive entertainment wish them luck with the search.
It's not unreasonable to expect pay for a nights work.
[/quote]

Agree with everything you've said.

[Bilbo]

No way I would be ALLOWED to do NYE for less than £200. If I am asked I tell them to ask their wife if she would 'release' them on that evening, off all evenings, for just £40 and beer.

[ambient]

I've been told by various people, that clubs especially have budgets for entertainment. So if a band I'm playing for is approached by a club, for instance there's a tennis club in leamington spa that has asked one of my bands to play for them, and it's for free, or in the case of the tennis club, you get a meal, then I ask myself what's happened to the budget ?

A meal that they're selling for £4 costs them pence, I'm not playing (plus travelling to and from leamington spa, and giving up an evening of my time) for a meal that costs pence.