band fees and free beer

[tauzero]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440267647' post='2849508']
Unfortunately we're often up against IT professionals who get 3x that for a day's work in their day job and whose idea of fun is to play a NYE gig.
[/quote]

As an IT professional, I can only say: if only...

[Slipperydick]

I Wont play NYE any more, but thats a personal thing.

If I did and beer was the only form of payment, I'd want £250 in beer/meal tokens redeemable any time during they year to suit me.

[hubrad]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1439802416' post='2845787']
No way I would be ALLOWED to do NYE for less than £200. If I am asked I tell them to ask their wife if she would 'release' them on that evening, off all evenings, for just £40 and beer.
[/quote]

Basically this.. Music is officially part of my living, so a paying gig is good, but NYE has to be a good payer or I'll be spending time with the wife. If any bands I play with don't get that, it's their night out!

[PaulWarning]

Don't landlords think this through? free drinks equals a pissed up band and a bloody awful performance, having said that if the crowd are also pissed they probably won't notice or care, funny old world.

[JapanAxe]

Here we go again: http://www.joinmyband.co.uk/classifieds/christmas-fayre-t788279.html

[JTUK]

Well, they'll keep asking as long as bands are prepared to do it.

Personally I've always thought there are too many bands and too many gigs and the relaxation of the music licence laws was NOT a good
thing. Most decent bands I know say the same thing.

[elephantgrey]

Reminds me of when, a few bands back, we would be asked to do charity gigs. They would pay the bouncers, food/barstaff, sound engineer, etc. etc., but would expect bands to play for free/beer because its a charity gig.
On majority vote the band usually ended up taking the gigs for exposure, and if anything it led to less and less paid work.

[Slipperydick]

To go out on NYE,is expensive, so there are always bands who will do it for free, or cheap, possibly not realising quite how much its worth. It gives them something to do for free, they can invite their friends, take the wife and sometimes the kids, and show off. Then 2nd Jan its back to the desk job and dreams of well paid gigs.

I took a 10 year break in the 80s, and when I started again I played in a covers band like that for a couple of years and was surprised by the attitude towards getting paid,

They got rid of me when I woudnt play NYE for the second year running, even though it was for money( not a lot though), family came first. Plus I hated playing the same old covers, often for free, and refused to play All Right Now etc.

Out of that band, I'm the only one still playing though, and never for free. But then, I didnt have a career, or even a boss, so it was different for me.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Slipperydick

[blue]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1439819480' post='2846004']
I wouldn't go out on NYE for less than £200 and even then it'd have to be local. Any more than 45 minutes travel and I'd need another £50.

If you think you're being undervalued, then say so. If your band don't like it, well then I'm sorry but you need to give them some facts and you need to stand your ground.

You'll need to be set up by 7pm, play from after dinner (9ish?) until at least 12.30-1, you won't be able to pack up for an hour after that and you'll end up getting home at 2.30-3am sober. That deserves recompense! Any other pub gig you'd be looking at around £10ph all told from when you leave the house to when you get home. NYE should be at least double that.
[/quote]


I got spoiled this summer. We are primarily a $100.00 per man 70s style blues/ rock we play about 75 shows per year. However, this summer some how we scored 2 corporate gigs, each paid 2k for playing 1.5 hours. BTW, one provided Class A Sound and lighting.

Blue

[PaulWarning]

it all boils down to this, do you play for a living/the money or do you play for pleasure? I'm in the latter so money is of secondary importance to me, in other words I don't need the money, I don't think people should criticise me for it

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1440571441' post='2851940']
it all boils down to this, do you play for a living/the money or do you play for pleasure? I'm in the latter so money is of secondary importance to me, in other words I don't need the money, I don't think people should criticise me for it
[/quote]

So if you found someone doing your day job for 10% of what your paid, because they enjoy it, how would you feel ?

[PaulWarning]

yeah I was anticipating that one, if someone wants to do your job for less either have to make sure you do it better to justify the money or find another job or lower your wage demands, it's called market forces

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1440579721' post='2852036']
yeah I was anticipating that one, if someone wants to do your job for less either have to make sure you do it better to justify the money or find another job or lower your wage demands, it's called market forces
[/quote]

Its not a market, your giving it away. Whats more, your paying for the privilege. You still have overheads.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Slipperydick

[TimR]

That's a tough one because the 'wage' part is only one factor.

I couldn't subsidise my day job by telling my boss, it's ok, I'll work for less for you and just work nights for someone else to pay my mortgage.

Edited August 26, 2015 by TimR

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1440580312' post='2852045']
Its not a market, your giving it away. Whats more, your paying for the privilege. You still have overheads.
[/quote]it's the same with any hobby, it's unfortunate that you've chosen a career that other people enjoy doing, but as I stated you have to make sure you're good enough to do it professionally, for instance the guys who play football on a Sunday morning do it for free because they're not good enough to get paid for it, go up a notch and you get semi pros who need a day job to earn enough money to live on, why should the music industry be any different?

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1440578695' post='2852020']
So if you found someone doing your day job for 10% of what your paid, because they enjoy it, how would you feel ?
[/quote]

I would say good luck to them... I work in construction and they pay me the minimum they possibly can to get someone with the skills they need to complete the contract. I get a penny an hour more than someone who can't do my job.

No-one would do my job for less because it is sh*t ... music is enjoyable and many many people are happy to do it for free

Edited August 26, 2015 by CamdenRob

[TimR]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1440581225' post='2852057']
it's the same with any hobby, it's unfortunate that you've chosen a career that other people enjoy doing, but as I stated you have to make sure you're good enough to do it professionally, for instance the guys who play football on a Sunday morning do it for free because they're not good enough to get paid for it, go up a notch and you get semi pros who need a day job to earn enough money to live on, why should the music industry be any different?
[/quote]

Because you should be compensated for your work.
If people paid to watch Sunday morning players kick a ball about then they'd expect to get a slice of that as they are what the people have come to see.

[TimR]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1440581301' post='2852060']


I would say good luck to them... I work in construction and they pay me the minimum they possibly can to get someone with the skills they need to complete the contract. I get a penny an hour more than someone who can't do my job.

No-one would do my job for less because it is sh*t ... music is enjoyable and many many people are happy to do it for free
[/quote]

People would do your job for less. That's why there is a minimum wage in the UK.

By playing music for free, you are effectively the same as someone who comes to your workplace and offers to do your job for less and sleep 10 to a room.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440582009' post='2852070']
People would do your job for less. That's why there is a minimum wage in the UK.

By playing music for free, you are effectively the same as someone who comes to your workplace and offers to do your job for less and sleep 10 to a room.
[/quote]

There are many many 10 to a room guys on the sites in London but they are all doing manual jobs, jobs where the required skill set is being physically able to carry stuff around and nothing more, they are cheaper than a brittish worker with the same skills who will not live in the same conditions. I have a skilled job which has taken years to learn. I can't just be replaced by a random bloke in the street... If it was possible to replace me for less they would. Instantly.

Edited August 26, 2015 by CamdenRob

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440581835' post='2852066']
Because you should be compensated for your work.
If people paid to watch Sunday morning players kick a ball about then they'd expect to get a slice of that as they are what the people have come to see.
[/quote]but if you're a semi pro playing covers in a pub you get a payment, if you're good enough to draw a big crowd the pub will pay you more because you've justified the extra cost, if you're playing in an originals band, mid week to about 5 people you won't get anything, in other words you get paid what you're worth.
I play in a punk covers band which I thoroughly enjoy, but to earn a living I would have to play in a, say, function band, all different styles, but I'm not good enough for that, so I don't expect to make a living from music

[tauzero]

[quote name='Slipperydick' timestamp='1440578695' post='2852020']
So if you found someone doing your day job for 10% of what your paid, because they enjoy it, how would you feel ?
[/quote]

I'm currently training someone to do my day job for 10% of what I get paid so I can be made redundant. That's called "outsourcing to India". Fortunately that's not likely to be an issue for bands for a while yet.

PS. And I feel exactly how you'd expect me to feel, but it wouldn't get through the expletives filter.

Edited August 26, 2015 by tauzero

[TimR]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1440582802' post='2852075']
but if you're a semi pro playing covers in a pub you get a payment, if you're good enough to draw a big crowd the pub will pay you more because you've justified the extra cost, if you're playing in an originals band, mid week to about 5 people you won't get anything, in other words you get paid what you're worth.
I play in a punk covers band which I thoroughly enjoy, but to earn a living I would have to play in a, say, function band, all different styles, but I'm not good enough for that, so I don't expect to make a living from music
[/quote]

I would argue that if you've been asked to play a NYEs gig, you are worth considerably more than free beer.

[TimR]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1440582379' post='2852071']


There are many many 10 to a room guys on the sites in London but they are all doing manual jobs, jobs where the required skill set is being physically able to carry stuff around and nothing more, they are cheaper than a brittish worker with the same skills who will not live in the same conditions. I have a skilled job which has taken years to learn. I can't just be replaced by a random bloke in the street... If it was possible to replace me for less they would. Instantly.
[/quote]

I think you have just proved my argument.

[TimR]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1440583843' post='2852087']


I'm currently training someone to do my day job for 10% of what I get paid so I can be made redundant. That's called "outsourcing to India". Fortunately that's not likely to be an issue for bands for a while yet.

PS. And I feel exactly how you'd expect me to feel, but it wouldn't get through the expletives filter.
[/quote]

Are people still outsourcing to India? Have they learned nothing.

In 18months they'll be asking you to go back for 10% more.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1440584551' post='2852095']
I would argue that if you've been asked to play a NYEs gig, you are worth considerably more than free beer.
[/quote]depends, if you're so bad, you emptied the pub you'd be overcharging them, and at that sort of fee for NYE that's probably all the pub will get