CamdenRob Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1439820154' post='2846011'] I'd say it's very healthy to have a level of [b]banter[/b] in any group, [/quote] urgh... that word makes me shiver... The amount of bullying I've seen of people at work that falls under the catagory of "banter" is unbelievable. Edited August 17, 2015 by CamdenRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyDog Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) [quote name='MarkW' timestamp='1439802718' post='2845791'] our guitarist never misses an opportunity to tell me how many better bass players he's known... I genuinely don't think he realises that it's gone past mildly amusing and is now starting to hack me off.[/quote] Holy crap. Have you told him? Because you really, really need to. I genuinely admire the thickness of your skin and your obvious patience, because if I was you there would have been either a} a walking out or b} claret or c} both by now. Sorry to say this, especially as you've described them as friends, but your band'mates' sound like a shower of w**kers to me. Seriously, you should definitely consider leaving if they think this sort of behaviour is remotely acceptable. Edited August 17, 2015 by UglyDog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) 'Banter': Yeah, I'd used it carefully with the 'a level of', because it's a sliding scale from affectionate ribbing to pointed barbs, but it can be a good thing. I think what you have seen, Rob, is bullying being passed off as something else. Edited August 17, 2015 by Muzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 [quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1439821838' post='2846030'] 'Banter': Yeah, I'd used it carefully with the 'a level of', because it's a sliding scale from affectionate ribbing to pointed barbs, but it can be a good thing. I think what you have seen, Rob, is bullying being passed off as something else. [/quote] Yeah your right... nothing wrong with having a bit of a laugh with your mates but some of the "banter" i've seen on the building sites is nothing short of bullying... all that pseudo masculine alpha male crap, there is no place for it - either in the workplace or in a band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm very sensitive. However I don't mind my own skills been called into question although it smarts a bit I'm still only a novice really, and my current level is I can play a bit. However I can't stand people insulting bass players in general. Easy or hard songs it takes patience, timing, good tone and much more to be a bassist. Most people know this, some will jokingly say things to wind a bass player up, others really do need a smack. It sounds to me like I would of been kicking off if people had spoken to me that way. I think it can be summed up in the saying "bass is easy to pick up, but hard to master". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Sounds more like the OP is looking for justification to walk away. "Noddy bass-lines" or not, you are still a member of the band, and if your band "mates" are taking liberties with you and openly mocking your role in the band, then they aren't band "mates". Sensitive or not, sounds like time to tell them to look for another bass player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Why did they have to get a pro dep in to cover you if bass is so easy? Did he roadie all the gear as well? Bass ain't easy and they depend on it because the keyboard player can make mistakes all night and sing the wrong words and nobody notices. The bass player hits one wrong note and not only do the band notice but the audience knows something (but not what) is wrong. I was very passive in a band I was in who were like that towards me. It actually started to affect my confidence on stage and I was making mistakes in songs I knew inside out. I was so worried about making a mistake that I wasn't playing freely and enjoying it. Eventually I auditioned for some other bands and did some dep gigs. Meeting people who were actually musicians and appreciate what each other did made me realise how limited the guys I was playing with actually were and that they were manifesting their insecurities on the person who was most passive. Almost a form of bullying. I left the band. I'm gigging more than they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Don't like all this someone is better than somone else rubbish. There's a lot more to being a good band member than shredding loads of notes and slap soloing over jazz tunes FFS. A band is the sum of its individual components. Much rather hear two quality notes at the right time than two hundred meaningless attention seeking notes ruining any potential melody,feel or groove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 This thread has got me wound up on the OP's behalf! Absolute cheek of the highest order, in the imagined hierarchy of musicianship in which the rhythm section gets looked down on. Never fails to grind my gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1439827791' post='2846072'] Don't like all this someone is better than somone else rubbish. There's a lot more to being a good band member than shredding loads of notes and slap soloing over jazz tunes FFS. A band is the sum of its individual components. Much rather hear two quality notes at the right time than two hundred meaningless attention seeking notes ruining any potential melody,feel or groove. [/quote] Totally agree. I've been playing for over 35 years and whilst not being the most amazing technically gifted player, I know I am solid and have a good sense of rhythm and can fit into a band situation well. I have heard our guitarist trying to play bass and it's very shoddy. I can certainly play guitar better than he can play bass, so for him to slag me off saying no one would want to play with me or that I only use two strings really annoyed me. I don't make near as many mistakes as him! Banter, whilst being touted as good natured , can have bite and be hurtful. I certainly showed him right enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 [quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1439828298' post='2846076'] This thread has got me wound up on the OP's behalf! Absolute cheek of the highest order, in the imagined hierarchy of musicianship in which the rhythm section gets looked down on. Never fails to grind my gears. [/quote] I totally agree. Apart from drummers of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 [quote name='MarkW' timestamp='1439804890' post='2845822'] Now I like that idea! OK folks, any suggestions for songs that technically challenge everyone in the band? I'm up for it! [/quote] Well if you can get the singer to sit one out then my suggestion would be this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBG3ClH-AEk - technically challenging and awesome to play. but anyhow, personally I would not put up with being treated that way. I already found attitude like this from a keyboardist I was playing with and I really think it's un-called for. A genuinely friendly joke as a one-off ribbing is one thing, but a nasty attitude that dismisses you and your contribution to the band is quite another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalextra Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 [quote name='MarkW' timestamp='1439754464' post='2845525'] So, as the title suggests, I am without doubt the least musically valued member of our band. They are a lovely bunch and we get on like a house on fire, but the innate assumption amongst all of them is that whilst keyboard, guitar and drums all require skill, anyone can play the bass. Now I don't really mind - not least because I know I'm nowt special - but it does make me laugh sometimes. Because I have a 4x4 and a trailer I hump most of our gear to and from gigs, and a few weeks ago I was described in all seriousness by our keyboard player as 'a roadie who plays a bit'. Charming! And tonight, when we're trying to sort a dep guitarist for an imminent gig, our singer said "if you'd learned the guitar instead of the bass we'd be fine, 'cos I could probably learn what you do in a fortnight'. Now this isn't a play for sympathy or moral support because I really couldn't give a toss (I taught myself Rhythm Stick to a gig-able standard, so I can't be completely useless) but it did get me thinking: I've read all the stuff about how important we are, and how good bass players are so much harder to come by than good guitarists, but is that really the case? The fact is that in a pubs & clubs covers band like mine pretty much any monkey could do just as good a job as me: there isn't exactly huge scope for wowing the punters with a flashy rendition of the two notes in 'Moves Like Jagger' is there? And even if I could play like Les Claypool or Marcus Miller, what exactly would I do with 'Summer of 69' or 'Country Roads' that I'm not doing now? So given the noddy-bass-line stuff we play, how would I ever look like anything other than a noddy? :-( [/quote] You'll be lucky to get any sympathy on here now you've admitted to driving a 4x4! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) I'd get the f**k away from these people, they sound like a right bunch of shits. So you're self-depreciating and, by the sounds of it, not exactly brimming over with self-confidence ? Is that a licence for people to treat you badly ? No, but it sounds like these people think so. They're bullies, pure and simple. Being in a band is meant to be fun....find another band. p.s Given their attitude to your contribution, I'd not bother telling this lot that your were leaving, just stop turning up. Edited August 23, 2015 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapiro Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 [quote name='MarkW' timestamp='1439754464' post='2845525'] So, as the title suggests, I am without doubt the least musically valued member of our band. They are a lovely bunch and we get on like a house on fire, but the innate assumption amongst all of them is that whilst keyboard, guitar and drums all require skill, anyone can play the bass. Now I don't really mind - not least because I know I'm nowt special - but it does make me laugh sometimes. Because I have a 4x4 and a trailer I hump most of our gear to and from gigs, and a few weeks ago I was described in all seriousness by our keyboard player as 'a roadie who plays a bit'. Charming! And tonight, when we're trying to sort a dep guitarist for an imminent gig, our singer said "if you'd learned the guitar instead of the bass we'd be fine, 'cos I could probably learn what you do in a fortnight'. Now this isn't a play for sympathy or moral support because I really couldn't give a toss (I taught myself Rhythm Stick to a gig-able standard, so I can't be completely useless) but it did get me thinking: I've read all the stuff about how important we are, and how good bass players are so much harder to come by than good guitarists, but is that really the case? The fact is that in a pubs & clubs covers band like mine pretty much any monkey could do just as good a job as me: there isn't exactly huge scope for wowing the punters with a flashy rendition of the two notes in 'Moves Like Jagger' is there? And even if I could play like Les Claypool or Marcus Miller, what exactly would I do with 'Summer of 69' or 'Country Roads' that I'm not doing now? So given the noddy-bass-line stuff we play, how would I ever look like anything other than a noddy? :-( [/quote] I just had a first look at Rhythm Stick - looks great fun Just tell them to try it for one song, and it will soon fix., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yeah, but if they do Rhythm Stick the keyboard player will play it like Les Dawson (but nobody will bat an eyelid), and the OP will be laughing so hard that he will drop one bum note into his otherwise flawless part and the rest of the band will all turn and glare at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 [quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1439755423' post='2845540'] At a gig once a punter shouted out 'What does the bass do?' I replied, 'OK, I won't play in the next song' and the band backed me. It sounded sh*te and when I started playing again in the next song I got a big cheer. It's not only punters who don't know what we do but I'm lucky that my bandmates do. [/quote] ha ha Similarly, my very first band on bass was a not very good black metal kind of band. When I asked for some recordings prior to the audition they said not to worry. When I showed up it was clear to me that they (a drummer and a guitarist, no singer yet) only looked for a bass player because, well, bands always have a bass player, not because they thought they needed the sound of a bass. I was told, literally "just follow the guitar, it won't matter if you make mistakes because nobody listens to the bass anyway". We got together maybe four times, once a week. Then, I could not make the next practice and they decided to go ahead and do it without me. Halfway through I received a text from the guitarist: "you ok for next week? it sounds like sh*te without the bass!!!" No, I did not stay with that band long. They were good guys, but musically it was dreadful. We'd go for a pint after practice and they'd talk about whether it'd be a problem to take time off work when we have to go on tour, and how amazing it'd be if we get to support Slayer, and... So for my next band, it was a funk/hip hop thing, I joined a week before our first gig. I do like a bit of contrast in my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 [quote name='police squad' timestamp='1439807321' post='2845843'] learn some Police tunes, that should challenge peoples awareness of space and time keeping (sounds all a bit Star Trek) or tell 'em to fook off [/quote] That's a great suggestion. The songs sound simple and easy enough... but it takes decent players to make them sound right, so they can highlight the band's shortcomings easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 [URL=http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/Karl_Altdorfer/media/11119964_816856651732367_1496833074266172744_n_zpsujovqj5h.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q693/Karl_Altdorfer/11119964_816856651732367_1496833074266172744_n_zpsujovqj5h.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyDog Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1440062647' post='2847903'] No, I did not stay with that band long. They were good guys, but musically it was dreadful. We'd go for a pint after practice and they'd talk about whether it'd be a problem to take time off work when we have to go on tour, and how amazing it'd be if we get to support Slayer, and... [/quote] Aww, bless such sweet naivety. I bet most of us dreamed like that when we first started out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I'd give notice to all members except the Key Board Cock. You might want to give notice like a day before a gig. Anybody can play bass so what difference could it make. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Don't put up with it. Although you probably write it off as "banter" at the moment, it is bullying and will eventually eat you up. I was in a similar situation when I played in a trio for 10 years. Over time the drummer's ego grew out of all proportion and I was the butt of increasingly nasty "jokes", "pranks" and comments. I haven't spoken to him for the last 20 years. I still play with the guitarist, who is a great bloke. The long and short of it is that it will get to you in the end, and you are best to nip it in the bud as soon as possible. If that means walking away from the band, so be it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1440234293' post='2849216'] Don't put up with it. Although you probably write it off as "banter" at the moment, it is bullying and will eventually eat you up. I was in a similar situation when I played in a trio for 10 years. Over time the drummer's ego grew out of all proportion and I was the butt of increasingly nasty "jokes", "pranks" and comments. I haven't spoken to him for the last 20 years. I still play with the guitarist, who is a great bloke. The long and short of it is that it will get to you in the end, and you are best to nip it in the bud as soon as possible. If that means walking away from the band, so be it! [/quote] I've got to agree with Norris and all the other posters on this one. One my late mum's wise sayings was 'if you act like a carpet people will walk on you'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipperydick Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1440234293' post='2849216'] Don't put up with it. Although you probably write it off as "banter" at the moment, it is bullying and will eventually eat you up. I was in a similar situation when I played in a trio for 10 years. Over time the drummer's ego grew out of all proportion and I was the butt of increasingly nasty "jokes", "pranks" and comments. I haven't spoken to him for the last 20 years. I still play with the guitarist, who is a great bloke. The long and short of it is that it will get to you in the end, and you are best to nip it in the bud as soon as possible. If that means walking away from the band, so be it! [/quote] This... Before they get too confident that you wont react and include members of the audience in on the jokes. and that will happen if you dont sort it. Personally I'd not just walk, but do it so that people know that you quit and were not pushed. Cos rather than admit to going too far, they might well make out they had just been trying to get rid of you. Trust me, the same thing happened to me once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pst62 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 +1 to Norris and Slippery suggestions. Walk away, before they humiliate you in front of an entire audience, either that or you end up lamping one (or the lot) of them. I'm an ex native of North Yorkshire myself and I left a band in the '80's after witnessing the treatment metered out to our rhythm guitarist by the lead guitarist and singer. That started out disguised as "friendly banter" and in the end the lad nearly had a break down. It no good being in a band, no matter how good they are, if they're arseholes. Another thing, you'll also have the satisfaction of knowing they're stumped for getting their gear around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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