Galloping Triplets

[coasterbass]

Quick question covering technique and stamina I guess...

I'm trying to learn Knights of Cydonia by Muse. The galloping triplets from around 1m to 3m are killing me. I haven't really had to do this before (apart from an annual blast of 'do they know its christmas?') We're playing it 40bpm faster than the recording.

(ps. this is all plectrum related)

Now, technique wise, am I supposed to do fast triplets by pivoting my hand on the ball of my wrist; or is it my whole forearm that is supposed to move?? Or neither??
With the former i get friction burns after a minute or so. With the latter it feels harder to control, but less painful.

Stamina wise, I get muscle pain halfway up my forearm, which feels liek its from holding the plentrum too tightly.

Any tips for all this peeps??

Cheers

[phil_the_bassist]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='275466' date='Sep 2 2008, 02:43 PM']Quick question covering technique and stamina I guess...

I'm trying to learn Knights of Cydonia by Muse. The galloping triplets from around 1m to 3m are killing me. I haven't really had to do this before (apart from an annual blast of 'do they know its christmas?') We're playing it 40bpm faster than the recording.

(ps. this is all [i][b]plectrum[/b][/i] related)

Now, technique wise, am I supposed to do fast triplets by pivoting my hand on the ball of my wrist; or is it my whole forearm that is supposed to move?? Or neither??
With the former i get friction burns after a minute or so. With the latter it feels harder to control, but less painful.

Stamina wise, I get muscle pain halfway up my forearm, which feels liek its from holding the [i][b]plentrum[/b][/i] too tightly.

Any tips for all this peeps??

Cheers[/quote]

I think I see your problem

I personally find that using three fingers is the easiest way to play triplets...but that's because I haven't used a pick in about 5 years!

Sorry about the lack of help

Edited September 2, 2008 by phil_the_bassist

[coasterbass]

The only thing my third finger can do is scratch my ar%e. Its the least talented member of my personal band.

Hence my need for a pick.

I'm not new to the pick, but triplets at that speed is proving tricky.

I know more practice, (and then some more) will help, but I'm curious to know what i should be doing.

[MuseMatt]

I had the same problem just a few months back. Using a pick is definately a key to this song (Chris does it live).
You have to learn how to alternate pick, and to this song the way you stroke the string first is most important.

On your E-string start with an upstroke, A string start with downstroke. Relax your fingers around the pick, but make sure it doesn't tip over. A smaller pick could also work (I've used a tiny red Jazz pick myself)
You might also want to experiment where you play best (near the bridge or near the neck). I tend to play best near the bridge.

I hope this helps!

[rjb]

Triplets are fine with two fingers. To my ears it also sounds much cleaner than picking as it is easier to mute as you play. Used to play with three fingers but broke my ring finger in an accident so have learnt to manage with two...

Edited September 2, 2008 by rjb

[MuseMatt]

they are fine, however.. I found for this song it's better to play with a pick to get close to the sound

[coasterbass]

The curious thing for me is that he ditches the pick for the 2nd half ??

[Peaty]

Try a lighter grade pick with a bit more flick to it

Pete

[MuseMatt]

yup he does, it's mostly a sound thing for the triplets afaik. after that he needs a milder sound and ditches it

[Kev]

i just use my normal 2 fingers when i play that song

[MuseMatt]

but you have always been different

Edited September 3, 2008 by MuseMatt

[Muppet]

I'm with MuseMatt in using the pick for this song. When I play this song I use a combination of wrist and finger movement as it give me the best amount of control. I try to anchor my forearm in one position and use my thumb and forefinger to move the pick with some slight wrist movement, though everyone is different.

Keep at it, it took me a while to learn the control required.

[MuseMatt]

I try to make as little movement with my arm as possible and keep it relaxed. Might not look as cool but works really well! Good luck with learning

[MuseMatt]

hehe I didn't even think about this but you're right... I just lost myself when I read Knights of Cydonia (me being a massive musefan).

[Kev]

[quote name='MuseMatt' post='275885' date='Sep 2 2008, 10:59 PM']but you have always been different [/quote]
hmm do i detect a guilty insult before the edit?

[MuseMatt]

no, i just forgot to type 'you'

[Deep Thought]

We used to do this one-loved playing it (with a pick), sadly I couldn't sing it to save my life, so eventually it got booted out of the set.

[grapevinebass]

I find that having some BlueTac on the plectrum really helps. I don't have to grip it so tightly, doesn't matter when you get sweaty fingers and it's easy to stick it on the bass when you go back to fingers.

[coasterbass]

[quote name='grapevinebass' post='276729' date='Sep 4 2008, 09:24 AM']I find that having some BlueTac on the plectrum really helps. I don't have to grip it so tightly, doesn't matter when you get sweaty fingers and it's easy to stick it on the bass when you go back to fingers.[/quote]


Now you're talking. I like it.
Cheers

[Bassassin]

For this sort of thing you absolutely [i]have[/i] to use alternating strokes - you'd have to be superhuman to play this just with downstrokes. Don't grip the pick too hard - first stop is hand cramps if you do, and to make this easier use a pick with a textured gripping area - I swear by Dunlop black nylon 1mm, the slight flexibility of the material gives you much more feel & control than a rigid plastic.

Playing position makes a big difference too - experiment with having your bass at different heights until you find the one that gives you the best freedom of hand movement. Most of the motion should be coming from your wrist - but I'm not sure I understand how you're using a pick so you're getting friction burns, though!

Never actually tried playing this song myself - I'll have to give it a shot!

Jon.

[coasterbass]

Cheers Jon - much appreciated.

Maybe I should explain the friction burns...
If you look at the palm of your picking hand, and follow the line of your little pinky back towards your wrist, then the bit just before your hand turns into your wrist is where i rest my arm as it comes over the top of the bass. It very quickly gets hot against the paint of the bass.

[Cernael]

Hmm.

For picking in general, I favour having the instrument higher, so the forearm is somewhat closer to being parallel to the strings. This means you can use a wrist-rotating movement to pick, rather than moving the whole forearm up and down - the wrist is both faster and more accurate (some tech TV show I saw years ago reported a suggestion to replace the steering wheel in cars with a joystick-like device, on the grounds that the wrist is where we generally have the highest amount of control).

For bass fingerpicking, OTOH, I'd like to have the strings where my hand falls naturally with a fully extended arm...hard to reconcile the two, I know.

For slapping, OTTH (on the third hand...no, I don't have three hands, but still), again, I use that wrist movement, and like the strings higher to reach different strings with the slaps & pops...then again, I'm not a very good slapper in general.


Guess what I'm trying to say is, those burns seem to signify an inefficient picking technique, and I suggest you look into adjusting it. (I should probably make a tie-in with the OP here, but I can't really remember that one, so...)

[waynepunkdude]

For fast songs I tend to use a Dava pick because you can hit the strings hard but it gives in the middle giving a constant tone.

[fekalizatorius]

Simplest way obviously is three-finger galloping. If your a picker at heart, try alternating picking with a EXTRA light pick - it`s easier to alternate

[ZMech]

out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to play it 40bpm faster? that song is truly brilliant, especially live, and doesn't need altering.