A 500W head with valve preamp for £249!!!!!

[redstriper]

[quote name='Protium' post='298613' date='Oct 3 2008, 02:48 PM']As far as I can see the Hartke essentially has just one setting.

Don't get me started on the EQ options [/quote]

You are absolutely right there - these LH amps only have one basic sound and it's clean and fat with no overdrive facility.
The sound is always there however you set the eq, if you don't like the basic sound then these amps are not for you.
Most amps I've tried are the same in this respect, with just one basic sound - I don't think the character of the sound changes on an LM11 when you turn the gain up or down unless you turn it up too far in which case it sounds horrible.
Those amps like the Ashdown that allow you to alter the amount of valve grind would be better for anyone needing that feature, or they could use a distortion pedal.
Guitar amps need the input gain because most guitarists want distortion at some time or another, while bass players are not generally looking for that effect.

As for the eq - it is very simple and effective, but doesn't allow fine adjustments in the way that a graphic eq does.

For the full bells and whistles experience, look at the new Hartke Kilo which has more valves, input gain, overdrive, graphic eq etc. 1000 watts and still only £520 it should be capable of just about anything - still spells brite wrong though!

Also might weigh a bit more than an LM11.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Protium' post='298676' date='Oct 3 2008, 03:51 PM']You missed what I was saying there. IMO the design would benefit from an input volume control.[/quote]

No, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Why would the design benefit from an input volume control? This preamp is specifically designed not to be overdriven. Why should it be something it's not?

Alex

[wateroftyne]

Well, I think it's a fab idea. The less knobs the better.

If you don't like the amp 'cos does it doesn't have an input gain, it's because the amp is genuinely not for you. It's not because it's 'wrong'.

[darbs]

either way i'l be orderin mine this weekend. i think it will sound really good and thats the main thing. if you wanna listen to it searchhartke hydrive on youtube and have a listen

[Protium]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='298718' date='Oct 3 2008, 04:41 PM']No, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Why would the design benefit from an input volume control? This preamp is specifically designed not to be overdriven. Why should it be something it's not?

Alex[/quote]

The same reason it benefits from an output volume control.

[Protium]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='298728' date='Oct 3 2008, 04:53 PM']Well, I think it's a fab idea. The less knobs the better.

If you don't like the amp 'cos does it doesn't have an input gain, it's because the amp is genuinely not for you. It's not because it's 'wrong'.[/quote]

I didn't call it wrong. I'm just perplexed why they've given it a decent preamp and massive power section and then limited it to a 3 band EQ and a preamp with one setting

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Protium' post='298764' date='Oct 3 2008, 05:28 PM']The same reason it benefits from an output volume control.[/quote]

It has an output volume control to turn the volume up and down. What's the point of having a second volume control?!!

[quote name='Protium' post='298767' date='Oct 3 2008, 05:30 PM']I didn't call it wrong. I'm just perplexed why they've given it a decent preamp and massive power section and then limited it to a 3 band EQ and a preamp with one setting [/quote]

I'm perplexed why you'd think a 3 band EQ and a clean but 'juicy' preamp is limiting?

For years I used a preamp with loads of EQ and but hardly ever moved the knobs from flat. I now use a preamp with no EQ save a few switchable presets and a bass with nothing more than a pickup switch a volume knob and a tone knob. It isn't at all limiting! It is both liberating and versatile. Trust in the power of your ears and hands!

Alex

P.S. Btw, my EQ-free preamp 'with only one setting' is allied to a 3000W power amp. More perplexed?

P.P.S. And no, I don't have some tidy little smooth jazz tone - I have a big m*****f****r of a sound which envelopes my band with all kinds of fatness, growl and grease.

[Protium]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='298783' date='Oct 3 2008, 05:43 PM']It has an output volume control to turn the volume up and down. What's the point of having a second volume control?!!



I'm perplexed why you'd think a 3 band EQ and a clean but 'juicy' preamp is limiting?

For years I used a preamp with loads of EQ and but hardly ever moved the knobs from flat. I now use a preamp with no EQ save a few switchable presets and a bass with nothing more than a pickup switch a volume knob and a tone knob. It isn't at all limiting! It is both liberating and versatile. Trust in the power of your ears and hands!

Alex

P.S. Btw, my EQ-free preamp 'with only one setting' is allied to a 3000W power amp. More perplexed?

P.P.S. And no, I don't have some tidy little smooth jazz tone - I have a big m*****f****r of a sound which envelopes my band with all kinds of fatness, growl and grease.[/quote]


To set a constant volume going to the power amp without needing the limiter.

Look at it this way: Compare a 3 band EQ to a 12 band EQ. Which one is more limited?

Hartke have made a serious amp and then undersold it IMO. They didn't need to put hundreds of features on it, just a decent EQ section and it's in a league of it's own. It's like Ferrari building a car with a V12 engine and then only giving it 1 gear.

P.S. Blah, I have a big sound too, but I also have control over my tone which allows me to alter this sound if I feel the need, ZOMG HERESY!

[Protium]

P.P.S. Are you sure that tone knob on the bass isn't one feature too many?

[deksawyer]

I assume most of the guys arguing in this thead havn't even heard one....yes/no?

I had a quick play last week with one, through a Hartke XL4x10 and it sounded fantastic. The EQ may look limited but it actually works very well.

The lack of gain control wasn't an issue either - I plugged in a G&L (which must be one of the loudest basses I've heard, even compared to a Wal) as well as a cheap P copy. Both sounded great.

For £249, this is probably the best value starter head on the market. I say starter because that's exactly what this head is. If you thought the price was too good to be true, then you don't belong to the market sector this amp is amied at.

Everybody, go and try one.

D.

[johnnylager]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='298728' date='Oct 3 2008, 04:53 PM']Well, I think it's a fab idea. The less knobs the better.[/quote]
And quite simply the reason I will be trying one out again next week before pulling the trigger. Andyonbasses LH was just chipper through the 10.5's, by the way - cheers mate. I am bored of too many EQ / pre-amp options and now do it all from the bass, but hey - that's just me. I need to make room in my brain for more taxing decisions, such as which colour G&L to get.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Protium' post='298802' date='Oct 3 2008, 06:10 PM']To set a constant volume going to the power amp without needing the limiter.[/quote]

What? Where does the limiter come into it? The limiter is on the power amp and is independent of the other knob positions, it purely engages when the output signal from the power amp no longer tracks the input signal to the power amp. Same as any other amp with a true output limiter.

[quote name='Protium' post='298802' date='Oct 3 2008, 06:10 PM']Look at it this way: Compare a 3 band EQ to a 12 band EQ. Which one is more limited?[/quote]

You are continuing to miss the point. If you want more extensive EQ buy a different amp - Hartke even make other amps that fulful your requirements. Note that those amps are more expensive because the extra circuitry costs more.

[quote name='Protium' post='298802' date='Oct 3 2008, 06:10 PM']Hartke have made a serious amp and then undersold it IMO. They didn't need to put hundreds of features on it, just a decent EQ section and it's in a league of it's own. It's like Ferrari building a car with a V12 engine and then only giving it 1 gear.[/quote]

No, it's nothing like that. They've built an amp which costs very little which has the same features as many popular rack rigs like those with Demeter, Kern, Aguilar, Alembic, Trace Elliott valve preamps. Just because you want lots of EQ doesn't mean everyone else does. Just accept that we are all individuals ("I'm not!" "Shhhh...")

[quote name='Protium' post='298802' date='Oct 3 2008, 06:10 PM']P.S. Blah, I have a big sound too, but I also have control over my tone which allows me to alter this sound if I feel the need, ZOMG HERESY![/quote]

If you'd like to come down to Brighton for a lesson into how to control tone using your fingers then do let me know. "ZOMG, his bass makes all these different sounds and he isn't twisting any knobs, WTF?!!!!"

Alex

[Waldo]

The simplicity is the winner for me and the preamp used is a tried and tested design thats been around for a long time. You could slap V-Type or Alembic on the front of it and it would sell for several times more

When i've had amps with big fancy EQ systems I just end up fiddling forever and end up making my sound worse. Each to their own though.

There really is no need for some of the pettiness here.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Waldo

[redstriper]

[quote name='deksawyer' post='298812' date='Oct 3 2008, 06:24 PM']I assume most of the guys arguing in this thead havn't even heard one....yes/no?

I had a quick play last week with one, through a Hartke XL4x10 and it sounded fantastic. The EQ may look limited but it actually works very well.

The lack of gain control wasn't an issue either - I plugged in a G&L (which must be one of the loudest basses I've heard, even compared to a Wal) as well as a cheap P copy. Both sounded great.

For £249, this is probably the best value starter head on the market. I say starter because that's exactly what this head is. If you thought the price was too good to be true, then you don't belong to the market sector this amp is amied at.

Everybody, go and try one.

D.[/quote]

I had the use of the LH1000 for 3 days last week and I agree it's a great amp which blows the competition out of the water, The LH500 is basically 1/2 the LH1000 and plenty powerful enough for most players.

All the negative comments here seem to be from people who haven't even tried one, which is like reviewing a book before you read it - everyone who has played through one of these amps seems to agree that they are great and I can only agree.

I don't agree that it's a starter head - if you love the sound and features why would you want to change it?

However if you need more eq and features try this instead -

[Protium]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='298881' date='Oct 3 2008, 08:09 PM']What? Where does the limiter come into it? The limiter is on the power amp and is independent of the other knob positions, it purely engages when the output signal from the power amp no longer tracks the input signal to the power amp. Same as any other amp with a true output limiter.



You are continuing to miss the point. If you want more extensive EQ buy a different amp - Hartke even make other amps that fulful your requirements. Note that those amps are more expensive because the extra circuitry costs more.



No, it's nothing like that. They've built an amp which costs very little which has the same features as many popular rack rigs like those with Demeter, Kern, Aguilar, Alembic, Trace Elliott valve preamps. Just because you want lots of EQ doesn't mean everyone else does. Just accept that we are all individuals ("I'm not!" "Shhhh...")



If you'd like to come down to Brighton for a lesson into how to control tone using your fingers then do let me know. "ZOMG, his bass makes all these different sounds and he isn't twisting any knobs, WTF?!!!!"

Alex[/quote]

From a selling point of view they would have been better including a more extensive EQ, not to mention it being a lot more practical. You don't HAVE to use the whole EQ, it would just make the amp more appealing to the market.

You must be some sort of wizard being able to control tone with your fingers, I never figured that out...

[andyonbass]

I have owned a LH500 for about a month now and done several gigs with it. I bought it as a back up for my LM2 and to use it if necessary to drive an additional 2 cabs. I always have the tone controls of the LM2 set flat, because I want it to be transparent, and not to colour the tone of my ACG, which has ample adjustment from the on board preamp. I find the LH500 serves this purpose really well, and I am happy to use either. I always connect to the "passive" input and roll off the bass's volume a little, although there is plenty of headroom. Alex's bass sounded great through it at the bash, too!
I paid £229 for mine, and as long as it remains reliable, then I consider it to be an absolute bargain

Go try one.

[OldGit]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='298728' date='Oct 3 2008, 04:53 PM']Well, I think it's a fab idea. The less knobs the better.

If you don't like the amp 'cos does it doesn't have an input gain, it's because the amp is genuinely not for you. It's not because it's 'wrong'.[/quote]


Sure, I totally agree.
It just seems to limit the potential.
However, the fantastic price tag will almost certainly mean that this limitation (IMHO) will not be a big barrier to sales.

Kudos to Larry for selling it at this price, and the Kilo.

[escholl]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='298639' date='Oct 3 2008, 03:12 PM']This preamp design runs the valve at such a high voltage that you can't get grind from it unless you use a booster pedal before it.[/quote]

actually, that's not quite true. it's down to how they handle each gain stage, not the voltage it runs at...although a higher plate voltage can certainly provide more headroom. Other than that, i think you are absolutely right about why they used a valve preamp.

TBH, i really don't see why they didn't put in a preamp control, it would have cost them less than 50p and would have saved people complaining about it, in addition to giving options, i suppose.

As for the eq, well, i set everything through my hands, a tone control, and a two band eq that most people seem to hate....and i get great results. if i really wanted extensive EQ control, then i would get a fully parametric EQ and be done with it. I've never really thought it hugely mattered anyways, if you're counting on an EQ to really "fix" or "save" your tone, you're probably doing it wrong anyways. As far as room compensation goes, well, if it's too boomy or bright, it's a whole lot easier to turn the knob that says "bass" or "treble" then to move around a bunch of sliders....

[ReeV0]

does anyone have any pictures of any of the LH series in real life? id like to know how big they are

[redstriper]

[quote name='escholl' post='299417' date='Oct 4 2008, 03:53 PM']As for the eq, well, i set everything through my hands, a tone control, and a two band eq that most people seem to hate....and i get great results. if i really wanted extensive EQ control, then i would get a fully parametric EQ and be done with it. I've never really thought it hugely mattered anyways, if you're counting on an EQ to really "fix" or "save" your tone, you're probably doing it wrong anyways. As far as room compensation goes, well, if it's too boomy or bright, it's a whole lot easier to turn the knob that says "bass" or "treble" then to move around a bunch of sliders....[/quote]

I must be doing it wrong because I do count on eq to get my tone.

I use the graphic eq on my trace GP11 to remove all the top and mid frequencies.
The eq on the Hartke LH will not let me do that, it sounds too brite for me even with the mid and treble at zero and the bass on 10.
I tried running the Hartke from the GP11 with the eq flat on the Hartke and - there was my tone.

I love the idea of a simple eq but in practise I seem to need the graphic to get my sound and the GP11 does the job.

I am unusual in this respect and I'm sure the 3 tone controls on the LHs will be plenty for most 'normal' players.

For me, I wish there was a graphic like the GP11 on the LH amps because my GP11 is stuck to an old 150 watt amp that I'd like to upgrade.
The Kilo looks too big and heavy and the graphic eq may not have the same tone as I get from the GP11.

Maybe I will look for a GP11 pre amp and run it through a Hartke LH unless I can find 'that' sound in a smaller single box.

[escholl]

[quote name='redstriper' post='299443' date='Oct 4 2008, 04:41 PM']I must be doing it wrong because I do count on eq to get my tone.

I use the graphic eq on my trace GP11 to remove all the top and mid frequencies.
The eq on the Hartke LH will not let me do that, it sounds too brite for me even with the mid and treble at zero and the bass on 10.
I tried running the Hartke from the GP11 with the eq flat on the Hartke and - there was my tone.[/quote]

*shrug* i've had my best results by ensuring that the signal going into the amp is something i roughly already like, and then relying on the EQ to just adjust it slightly if needs be. To my mind, the need for radical EQ compensation seems to imply that there are other issues elsewhere, and radical EQ'ing will lead to phase shifts etc...on the other hand, if it's not broken, don't fix it, etc, etc. I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with EQ's like on the trace, they are certainly a more powerful tool than a "typical" 3-band eq. as we all know, there is no "right" or "wrong" way to do it, so perhaps wrong was the wrong word to use on my part.

[redstriper]

[quote name='escholl' post='299480' date='Oct 4 2008, 05:27 PM']*shrug* i've had my best results by ensuring that the signal going into the amp is something i roughly already like, and then relying on the EQ to just adjust it slightly if needs be. To my mind, the need for radical EQ compensation seems to imply that there are other issues elsewhere, and radical EQ'ing will lead to phase shifts etc...on the other hand, if it's not broken, don't fix it, etc, etc. I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with EQ's like on the trace, they are certainly a more powerful tool than a "typical" 3-band eq. as we all know, there is no "right" or "wrong" way to do it, so perhaps wrong was the wrong word to use on my part.[/quote]

Other issues elsewhere eh -
You could be right there!

Phase shifts etc.... - sorry, you've lost me now, I've been using this eq setting for 30 years in all kinds of venues and recordings with no problem so far.

I do know the bass sound I like and how to get it - same as most reggae players it involves removing all treble and upper midrange frequencies.

It's not really radical when all you want is bass from your bass.

[escholl]

[quote name='redstriper' post='299509' date='Oct 4 2008, 06:06 PM']It's not really radical when all you want is bass from your bass. [/quote]

I'm in the process of switching to 2 1x18 cabs...so i know what you mean there

It's too bad you just need/want more power out of your amp, is there any preamp out you can connect an external power amp to?

[redstriper]

[quote name='escholl' post='299524' date='Oct 4 2008, 06:33 PM']I'm in the process of switching to 2 1x18 cabs...so i know what you mean there

It's too bad you just need/want more power out of your amp, is there any preamp out you can connect an external power amp to? [/quote]
Most other bassists want treble clarity and presence but that's just not my scene.

2 x 18s would be great for my sound but not my back
I use a single 15 which is the best weight to tone ratio I could find.

There is a slave out from the Trace amp which I used to drive the Hartke LH1000 for a great big fat sound.
Trouble is that it's 2 heavy amps to carry and I'm trying to lighten the load.

The Trace is powerful enough on it's own for most small gigs and there's always a PA at bigger venues, it's only those middle size rooms where there's no decent PA that I need more power and that only happens very rarely.

Trying the LH1000 was an education that made me realise I don't need any more power 99% of the time and my speaker can't handle much more volume than the Trace gives anyway.
It also made me appreciate the eq on the Trace and that I'm fortunate to have the sound I love.

After trying quite a few rigs, I've decided to stick with what I've got until something with more power turns up - it may just be a more powerful version of the Trace amp or a standalone GP11 and power amp unless I find one of the new breed of lightweight amps can do it.

The closest I've got to 'my' sound with a modern amp is the markbass LM11 with both filters on full and all the eqs turned down except the low bass which was slightly boosted.

Yes - I like it deep

[OldGit]

[quote name='redstriper' post='299578' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:06 PM']The closest I've got to 'my' sound with a modern amp is the markbass LM11 with both filters on full and all the eqs turned down except the low bass which was slightly boosted.

Yes - I like it deep [/quote]

That's how I have the reggae channel of my MB LMK set, more or less ... except I don't use the mid scoop filter.
Works for me - loads of trouser flap in a creamy soup.

Would that not do it for you, RS?