Looking to downsize from Ampeg rig but not sure what to buy

[sPiKi]

I am currently using an Ampeg V4BH 100W head with an Ampeg 610 Classic cab. This is a great rig, as you would expect but I am considering downsizing to something more flexible to meet my gigging needs, something smaller and lighter.

I'm out gigging every weekend in pubs and clubs playing rock and pop covers but also, increasingly, weddings. Some of these can be in quite large rooms with maybe up to 300 guests, while others more intimate with maybe 50 or so. In these cases, a smaller rig would be more suitable.

At larger gigs I have also found that I can struggle to be heard against our one guitarist and a hard hitting drummer.

So what I have been looking at is downsizing to possibly a small micro amp with two 212 or 210 cabs or a variation on that. I'd like to be able to stack these vertically if necessary and also, the new rig would have to be louder and cut through better than the Ampeg.

I have looked at the GK MB800 head with two Neo 212 cabs as well as the TC BH800 and matching K212 or 210. Problem is, I have no local dealers where I can try this stuff out.

I'd really welcome any advice and guidance you could give me. Many thanks in advance.

Edited August 28, 2015 by sPiKi

[CamdenRob]

If your after the ampeg sound I wouldn't go for GK gear, its very modern and HiFi.

Perhaps look at orange and barefaced? Or maybe a genz streamliner.

[FuNkShUi]

What's local to you?
Perhaps some friendly basschatters may have some gear that'd be worth you trying

[xgsjx]

Lozz went from Ampeg to MarkBass. He said that they have a similar sound when in the mix.
Having had MarkBass myself, the 2x10 combo or the 1x12 with the 121 extension should be more than up to the task.

[Bassman Steve]

I would be very tempted with a PF500 or 800 coupled with a pair of matching cabs (2x10 or 1x15). Nice lightweight and modular rig for all those purposes. I had the 500 and 1x15 and loved the sound - only went when a Walkabout came up and I'm a Boogie man (as you see).

Barefaced are also good and my sound hasn't changed too much by going from the Boogie 2x15 to the two Compacts.

In your shoes I'd look at the PFs.

[Lozz196]

Yep, Markbass sits in the mix very much like Ampeg does. Only real difference is less gain/clank, Markbass doesn`t do that too well, but that`s easily sorted with pedals. If only wanting a clean, warm, good presence in the mix Markbass are a good option.

Aguilar is pretty much a slightly more modern Ampeg sound - I was able to coax some very nice SVT-type tones from my Tonehammers. Very old-school sounding amp - no glassy highs here, but thick, tubey tones (no lack of highs though). They`re very loud too. I have them going through a Barefaced Super12T and the rig is very lightweight, but powerful enough for all but the biggest stages - which I`m yet to play anyway (some day maybe).

[dand666]

I downgraded my SVT4pro head and 4x10cab to a Aguilar TH500 and SL112.

SO much lighter, easier to transport and imo better on the ears. You don't need anything to big for the bigger stages, just go through a monitor then you're fine.

[chris_b]

It's very easy to find a rig that [i]cuts through[/i] better than Ampeg, but you're going to loose that "Ampeg" sound in the process. You cut through by using power and volume from a big rig or by adding more mids from a smaller rig that has clarity and definition.

What's your budget?

To keep you in the "Ampeg sound" ballpark, a modular Ampeg rig would be a 2 ohm amp pushing a 4 ohm 410 and an 8 ohm 210. That's 3 rigs right there.

I'd went for a 2 ohm Thunderfunk pushing a 4 ohm 212 and an 8 ohm 112. Both Bergantino.

If you're in the UK (I see you put up the same post on Talkbass), there's a Barefaced Big Twin in the classifieds at the moment. You could cover most of the ground you need to cover with one of those and a good 800 watt amp.

[JTUK]

I'd go for a PF500 or TH500 with 2 TKS S112's cabs.

This will do the vintage vibe very well as the cabs work very well with both.
I'd also consider the PF cabs but only on price, nothng else, over the TKS cabs.

I've tested against Berg CN and Ag SL112 and the TKS cabs shaded it and works
with quite a few styles from hard driving pick, to vibey slap tones.

I am bit perturbed about the Ampeg rig not cutting it in a large room tho..??? that points to more fundemental problems

[sPiKi]

Thanks everyone for the replies... so much to think about.

I usually alternate between a US standard jazz and MD Roadworn P. Set up is pretty straightforward with a VT bass pedal (always on), Boss chorus (couple of songs) & tuner.
I usually have my EQ set pretty much flat, tweaking the low end and mids depending on the room.

Regarding the Ampeg sound, I've been fortunate to have had Ampeg for nearly all of my 20 years of playing, first with an SVT 200T and 810, then a 410 HLF and then the current rig. I know it's widely regarded as 'the' bass sound for rock, but sometimes I find its just a bit too muddy and the lows boomy. When it sings though I really like that tight low end and almost clang or snap of the high end...is this making sense? Any thought on a more powerful Ampeg amp with this cab?

Would the PF800 be a good match and give me what I;m looking for? Are the TC and GK systems better suited to slap/funk etc (which I do very little of in our set).

I have a budget of around £1200 for head and 2 cabs.

Thanks again everyone.

Edited August 29, 2015 by sPiKi

[sPiKi]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1440842968' post='2854247']
It's very easy to find a rig that [i]cuts through[/i] better than Ampeg, but you're going to loose that "Ampeg" sound in the process. You cut through by using power and volume from a big rig or by adding more mids from a smaller rig that has clarity and definition.

What's your budget?

To keep you in the "Ampeg sound" ballpark, a modular Ampeg rig would be a 2 ohm amp pushing a 4 ohm 410 and an 8 ohm 210. That's 3 rigs right there.

I'd went for a 2 ohm Thunderfunk pushing a 4 ohm 212 and an 8 ohm 112. Both Bergantino.

If you're in the UK (I see you put up the same post on Talkbass), there's a Barefaced Big Twin in the classifieds at the moment. You could cover most of the ground you need to cover with one of those and a good 800 watt amp.
[/quote]

Yes Chris, I did post this on TB just to get some feedback. I am in the UK, N. Ireland. We have very few good local music shops. Most carry the entry level budget stuff, although I noticed earlier today that one shop has some of the TC heads which I can try out.

Edited August 29, 2015 by sPiKi

[JTUK]

For £1200, pay £400-450 for the amp and the rest on cabs.

That would allow you to get most 212 and 2x112 second hand,
Cans that should be on your list, IMO are Berg 112's or the CN212.
Ag SL112, altho you'll struggle to get 2 for that money.
I think £800 will get you SH Bergs but the 2x112 option is more expensive
than a 212.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1440846422' post='2854280']
For £1200, pay £400-450 for the amp and the rest on cabs.

That would allow you to get most 212 and 2x112 second hand...
[/quote]

...and give you plenty of choice in the Amps & Cabs For Sale section of this forum. Buy used, and if you don't like it you can move it on at little or no net cost to yourself.

[chevy-stu]

I'd look at Orange, particularly the Terror before it's totally out of stock.. The Aguilar Tone Hammer is good, but might run out of puff..
I tried the Genz Streamliner & Shuttle, various Mark Bass, Euphonic and other I can'r remember light weight heads to replace my Mesa 400+ for smaller/upstairs gigs, and already had a GK as a spare. I've owned had various Peavey, Trace, Eden, Marshall VBA and DBS, Ampeg rigs before too, The only one that came close in power and warm sound to the Mesa was the Orange.

Edited August 29, 2015 by chevy-stu

[sPiKi]

Chevy, what did you think of the GK rig?

[chevy-stu]

I've had a my GK 700RB (I think) for years just as a spare, as I got it very cheap, and only used occasionally with Mesa 4x10, sounds OK but needs lots of eq as the flat sound is quite bright. I think it's 380 + 50 (to horn) at 4ohms, but only watts 250 watts at 8ohm, so runs out of power quite quick to my ears.
I've used other GK amps at gigs with backline provided and they seem ok, but never impressed. Best I've heard of newer gear is the Tonehammer.

[Iain]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1440843088' post='2854248']
I'd go for a PF500
[/quote]

I wouldn't - had one, useless when pushed even moderately. Thermal cut-out even in rehearsal. No issues pushing my markbass BigBang way harder and longer. Couldn't get good tone out of the PF-500 either which wasn't the speakers (PF115 & PF210) as I've tried them with my MB head and they sound great...

[chris_b]

I think the OP is in for a big change.

Selling gear you like is easy. Replacing it with another sound and getting to like that one as much is a far more difficult task. Don't think this rig will be the one. You're making the first step on a journey.

My suggestion would be to replace the cabs first. Running the current amp through a fairly neutral cab, like Barefaced, would keep a lot of the old sound intact, while improving the definition, punch and tone, in a significantly lighter format.

One of the BF 212's should easily match the old rig for volume.

[sPiKi]

Iain, any experience of Mark Bass speakers or a good match with one of their heads?

[Lozz196]

Markbass heads, imo, sound very good through Barefaced cabs. They also of course sound great through their own cabs, but MB cabs are quite coloured - not talking the yellow bit here either. If you need to DI the sound going through FOH ends up being a fair bit different to that which comes out of the cabs.

If looking at a whole rig change I`d say get that Barefaced Big Twin thats up for grabs on here asap before it goes, then spend some time researching different amp heads. If you buy used on here you`ll be able to try a good few without losing too much money, and it will be good fun too. And who knows, as Chris says, with the greater clarity of the BF cab, you might even find that the original amp-head now fits the bill better.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Iain' timestamp='1440852093' post='2854339']
I wouldn't - had one, useless when pushed even moderately. Thermal cut-out even in rehearsal. No issues pushing my markbass BigBang way harder and longer. Couldn't get good tone out of the PF-500 either which wasn't the speakers (PF115 & PF210) as I've tried them with my MB head and they sound great...
[/quote]

I agree that none of them work really well when pushed but that is the price you pay...and the reason why I ran an 800w class D...
but others find them acceptable in terms of volume and power so it can be on their list.

[Bigwan]

[quote name='sPiKi' timestamp='1440844012' post='2854257']


Yes Chris, I did post this on TB just to get some feedback. I am in the UK, N. Ireland. We have very few good local music shops. Most carry the entry level budget stuff, although I noticed earlier today that one shop has some of the TC heads which I can try out.
[/quote]

I have a barefaced retro 2x10 (not for sale!) if you'd like to try it out. I'm in Ballymena.

[bassmachine2112]

+1 on the Orange,I,m an old Ampeg and 8x10 user and I don,t miss it now I,m on Orange OBT 500 and a SP 2112 cab.
Heads are going for about £350-bargain

[bigjohn]

Id look at at an Ampeg SVP-pro pre with a power amp and a light cab.

That's what I use except with an Alembic FX-1 as my my main pre with the SVP through the fx loop.

It's not an SVT or a V4B but it's close and weighs nothing in comparison.

[Iain]

[quote name='sPiKi' timestamp='1440854233' post='2854352']
Iain, any experience of Mark Bass speakers or a good match with one of their heads?
[/quote]

Until I got my Barefaced SuperTwin I ran a pair of MB traveller cabs with the BigBang - they're now relegated to my rehearsal rig and I gig the BB & BF. They're really very good cabs - I've a 121H and 151P, with hindsight I'd have got 2 121Ps though - they deliver enough lows without needing the 15". I tend to play with the lows rolled off anyway as it keeps the general mix from muddying up.

Using the BB with the SuperTwin is as close to heaven as I'll get with my current boot space - I'd have gone for the BigTwin 2 but it's about 1/2" too deep for the boot aperture on my A5! I've not noticed a lack of top-end through what I have though.

One 121P and a BB head would probably cover most small venues.

I rarely use the BB head 'naked' though - I run through a lot of modelling with my Avid ElevenRack so the neutral nature of the Barefaced and ability for the BB head to be pretty clear (I run with the VPF and VLE completely off) and sim the amp and cab side in the rack - I generally use the Blue Line Bass (based on the 1969 Ampeg SVT* head) and 8x10 cab emulation...