Bass Lessons: Are they worth the money?

[Happy Jack]

One of the most famous and successful bass players in history would argue 'No'.

[i][b]We don't need no education ...[/b][/i]

[i][b] [/b][/i]

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1441278893' post='2857439']
One of the most famous and successful bass players in history would argue 'No'.
[/quote]

I think its dangerous to extrapolate from the most talented 0.001% to what works for those of us with more modest levels of natural talent.

[FuNkShUi]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1441278751' post='2857436']
there's so much stuff on you tube I do wonder if they are a waste of money, I've never had a lesson and managed to play the stuff I want to play, Most people when they start just want to play something they like, lots of teachers (not all) kill the initial enthusiasm by trying to get too technical or give the pupils something to learn that they're not in to.
[/quote]

How do you know if you've not had a lesson?
You should try, and see what you get out of it. You may be surprised

[Grangur]

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1441282484' post='2857499']


How do you know if you've not had a lesson?
You should try, and see what you get out of it. You may be surprised
[/quote]

The key in what Paul says is in the phrase "to play what I want to play".

If you're happy playing by ear or tabs, copying other folks' lines, or playing variations of those, maybe you don't need lessons.
But if you want to put a well constructed walking bass line together, I would have thought knowledge of scales and harmony would be needed. But I may be wrong, as I often find I am.

[Lozz196]

I`m sure I would be a much better player, with far greater knowledge of what to play/what not to play if I`d had lessons. That said, I can play what I need to so I`ve not done too bad, but in reality I know I`m nowhere near as good as I should be for the amount of time I`ve been playing. Mainly the theory side I`m lacking on.

[Coilte]

[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1441266877' post='2857304']
I've just found that so far I turn up and its pretty much left up to me to decide what we are doing that day. It feels like there is little direction or structure being offered to me which is perhaps the problem.
[/quote]

For me, this is the nub of the problem. A "real" teacher will (should) be able to assess your ability/status reasonably quickly, then proceed to teach and guide you based on this. A pupil is not in the position to know or dictate how the lessons should go.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Coilte

[Nicko]

I've said before, but....

As a six string player I played for about 15 years before taking lessons. I learnt more in the 2 years of lessons than I had from 15 years or reading books. I never had bass lessons, which may explain my faltering technique and bad habits, but the guitar lessons - particularly the theory - were valuable when I switched to bass. If you don't know your root from your 5th your minor from your major your progress could be severely limited unless you want to play what the tab says to play. One of the best things they taught was stuff like ear training to recognise intervals. I don't think I have much natural (or for that matter artificial) talent though.

Never had t'internet in those days though, and I guess most of this can be had for nowt online these days.

[CamdenRob]

I had one lesson when I was 13... Mostly because my mate who played guitar in the death metal band we were in was having lessons with some guy who's mate played bass and needed some cash.

I only had one session before he moved away, but in that lesson he told me that my plucking hand was too cramped up and taught me to straighten my fingers out a bit and use my thumb to float between the strings as an anchor point to pivot my wrist. Felt weird at first but I perserveered and this is the exact same technique I use to this day. Without that tip I guess I may have picked it up myself in time, but I reckon that one lesson is responsible for pretty much everything I've achieved on bass since.

I used to teach back before I started working full time. I only had 6 or 7 students, so not really a proper full time teacher, but I used to concentrate on theory mostly to teach them how to write their own basslines for their bands.

[Nicko]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1441283664' post='2857520']
For me, this is the nub of the problem. A "real" teacher will (should be) be able to assess your ability/status reasonably quickly, then proceed to teach and guide you based on this. A pupil is not in the position to know how the lessons should go.
[/quote]

Yes, a good teacher should be following a curriculum, of sorts. If you decide face to face is the way to go I'd suggest looking on the RGT site. [url="http://www.rgt.org/info/about.php"]http://www.rgt.org/info/about.php[/url]

[JTUK]

Depends on the end user. They can be a great resource or a complete waste of time, but with regards to the latter, I'd say the
end user was also wasting their time.
Of course, there are poor teachers as well..but that is like anything...do some research to see if the guy suits you

[4-string-thing]

I've often wondered about lessons, I've been playing since the age of 15 (I'm 53 now) never had a lesson which is why I'm probably not very good. I get by, but there's lots of things I can't do. I was once told by someone who studied at The Conservatorium Of Music in Amsterdam that I was "better than you think you are" So perhaps you can do ok without lessons?

If I had my time over though, I'd find a good teacher and at least have maybe a dozen, to get the basics right. There's more to playing the bass than knowing notes and scales etc.

[Coilte]

[quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1441286173' post='2857552']
I've often wondered about lessons, I've been playing since the age of 15 (I'm 53 now) never had a lesson which is why I'm probably not very good. I get by, but there's lots of things I can't do. I was once told by someone who studied at The Conservatorium Of Music in Amsterdam that I was "better than you think you are" So perhaps you can do ok without lessons?

If I had my time over though, I'd find a good teacher and at least have maybe a dozen, to get the basics right. There's more to playing the bass than knowing notes and scales etc.
[/quote]

I suppose it depends on your goals and ambitions. IMO the biggest problem/disadvantage with learning on your own is where to start and how to proceed. With the amount of information at our disposal it is a bewildering experience for a beginner learning alone, as to where to start. Often a beginner with the best intentions and will in the world will start too far along the learning path. This often results in frustration, which in turn can often lead to him/her giving up. All this, because a definitive path where one lesson builds, starting with the basics and continues incrementally from there, has not been taken.

As well as the above, I think it is generally accepted that you will learn more...and faster...from a teacher than on your own. As well as teaching, a good teacher can provide inspiration and guidance.

I genuinely think the OP's problem lies in the caliber of the teachers he has so far had.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Coilte

[FuNkShUi]

For me, there is no doubt that you can be a good, even great player without having lessons.
But after experiencing what i would consider a brilliant teacher, it always makes me think how much better those people could be.
If however you are happy with where you are at, and you can play everything you need, thats cool too.
But are they worth the money? With a good teacher, no doubt about it IMO.

[PaulWarning]

one of the other problems with theory is it can get in the way of song writing, it can stop you putting a certain chord with another because it's 'wrong' but discordant can sound good, I may be wrong but did the Beatles ever have professional lessons? some of their chord structures would have been frowned upon and John Lydon's out of tune singing would have horrified some (probably still does) but it works. I play with a pick because of my bass playing influences do but I'll bet if I'd have lessons some teachers would have tried to stop me.
BTW I'm not saying I wouldn't have been a better player with lessons or more precisely theory, but I do think the wrong way can produce interesting results

Edited September 3, 2015 by PaulWarning

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1441278893' post='2857439']
One of the most famous and successful bass players in history would argue 'No'.

[i][b]We don't need no education ...[/b][/i]

[i][b] [/b][/i]
[/quote]
[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1441282321' post='2857497']
I think its dangerous to extrapolate from the most talented 0.001% to what works for those of us with more modest levels of natural talent.
[/quote]

I rather hoped the smiley would be a giveaway that this was tongue in cheek.

The Wall was written by Roger Waters ...

[chris_b]

An [i]artiste[/i] wouldn't be asking this question.

I've never had a lesson and I do reasonably well. Would I have done even better after some lessons? Of course.

I know I would have done a [u]lot[/u] better as a player if I knew more. No question about that.

[Coilte]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1441291863' post='2857644']
one of the other problems with theory is it can get in the way of song writing, it can stop you putting a certain chord with another because it's 'wrong' but discordant can sound good
[/quote]

I have come across the above way of thinking on previous occasions where people regard theory as [i]rules.[/i] IMO theory contains the building blocks for music and a way for people to communicate with each other. It is not the fault of theory itself, if people use or approach it in a different way to what it is intended for.

The old saying..."a bad workman blames his tools.." springs to mind.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Coilte

[Nicko]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1441291863' post='2857644']
one of the other problems with theory is it can get in the way of song writing, it can stop you putting a certain chord with another because it's 'wrong' but discordant can sound good, I may be wrong but did the Beatles ever have professional lessons? some of their chord structures would have been frowned upon and John Lydon's out of tune singing would have horrified some (probably still does) but it works. I play with a pick because of my bass playing influences do but I'll bet if I'd have lessons some teachers would have tried to stop me.
BTW I'm not saying I wouldn't have been a better player with lessons or more precisely theory, but I do think the wrong way can produce interesting results
[/quote]

I have a reasonable knowledge of theory, and its never stopped me playing discordant sounds. Sometimes even intentionally

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1441294829' post='2857699']
I have come across the above way of thinking on previous occasions where people regard theory as [i]rules.[/i] IMO theory contains the building blocks for music and a way for people to communicate with each other. It is not the fault of theory itself, if people use or approach it in a different way to what it is intended for.

The old saying..."a bad workman blames his tools.." springs to mind.
[/quote]so, the theory is, if it sounds good it is good

[ambient]

Having lessons from a good teacher is an investment. You may not realise it at the time, but as you progress you will.

I've been fortunate to study with some amazing musicians, who have been truly inspiring. Not just bass tutors but others who have taught me so much about composition and arranging, and put me on course for where I am now.

Bass wise, the best tutor I've had was Steve Lawson who I studied with for a couple of years or so.

There were some amazing bassists at uni who I studied with too, but for various reasons didn't get much from, mainly because I wasn't interested in developing my traditional bass playing skills, it wasn't stimulating creatively for me.

[ambient]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1441291863' post='2857644']
one of the other problems with theory is it can get in the way of song writing, it can stop you putting a certain chord with another because it's 'wrong' but discordant can sound good, I may be wrong but did the Beatles ever have professional lessons? some of their chord structures would have been frowned upon and John Lydon's out of tune singing would have horrified some (probably still does) but it works. I play with a pick because of my bass playing influences do but I'll bet if I'd have lessons some teachers would have tried to stop me.
BTW I'm not saying I wouldn't have been a better player with lessons or more precisely theory, but I do think the wrong way can produce interesting results
[/quote]

Theory doesn't get in the way of creativity. Thinking does.

Also how much of what the Beatles did was as a result of working with George Martin, who was classically trained ?

Edited September 3, 2015 by ambient

[timmo]

Personally i think a good bass teacher is invaluable. I went to a guitar/bass teacher for a year. He moved away from the area, and i found a bass only player. I have learned more from him in 6 weeks than i did in a year. Saying that, there are plenty of bass players that seem to be able to learn on thier own. I found i was just learning bits i wanted, and the bits i didn`t, i left. With a teacher, you need to be able to do everything you have been taught the previous lessons, otherwise you get lost. Plus an internnet teacher, or book can`t tell you that you have bad technique or doing something wrong.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1441297407' post='2857726']
Theory doesn't get in the way of creativity. Thinking does.

Also how much of what the Beatles did was as a result of working with George Martin, who was classically trained ?
[/quote]well certainly the orchestral scores were Martin, there is a story where Martin tried to stop them using 6th chords at the end of songs, because it sounded old fashioned

[Grangur]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1441296385' post='2857714']
so, the theory is, if it sounds good, it is good
[/quote]
Correct. If you play a "wrong" note it's called "an approach note". They're used a lot in walking.

"Any [i]wrong [/i]note is only a half-tone away from a [i]right [/i]note" - Victor Wooten

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1441298303' post='2857739']
Correct. If you play a "wrong" note it's called "an approach note". They're used a lot in walking.

"Any [i]wrong [/i]note is only a half-tone away from a [i]right [/i]note" - Victor Wooten
[/quote]

This. Absolutely this.