All the gear and no-eye-dear

[MiltyG565]

I know we like to sit around and chew the fat about gear - What's best for gigging, what's best for recording, what's best for this amount of money, what's best for metal. And I've long since held the view that, actually, nobody cares. The majority of an audience when you play live won't care. Other musicians might, but are you writing music to please other musicians?

I had the experience recently of playing with many fantastic musicians, who played on various qualities of instruments. The instruments were completely sidelined by sheer raw talent and songwriting/performing ability. Nobody was interested in talking about which year Fender stopped making their switches out of bakelite, or what bass is best for metal. Everyone got stuck into the music without pretentiousness.

So what compels us to still talk about what instruments and backline we need to play the crow & fiddle on a gloomy Saturday evening? Does it make any difference to the punters? What if you spent £500 on a bass, and £500 on an amp - Wouldn't that be good enough?

And in video format - metal guy yells and swears (that's your warning)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSiv45KEFGY[/media]

Edited September 3, 2015 by MiltyG565

[Kev]

I don't think anything he says in the vid is not what everyone already knows, really.

Why own a sports car for commuting? Why buy an Italian tux for a family christening? People just do it, for a variety of reasons. Each to their own!

[discreet]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441286405' post='2857556']
Does it make any difference to the punters?
[/quote]

I'm quite sure it does not - but it certainly makes a difference to me. Who is more important??

If you like to have nice things and you can afford them, then capitalism dictates that nothing stand in the way of you buying them, regardless of any possible negative effects on our environment. But that's for another thread - one which I'm not going to start.

Edited September 3, 2015 by discreet

[4-string-thing]

I doubt many punters would know the difference between my £50 Jazz Bass copy and my 1970's Fender Precision. They are both the same colour and to their ears (and mine) both sound the same. A muso in the audience might, but would they really care that much? As long as it sounds ok and is in tune only a "gear snob" would worry surely?

[Oopsdabassist]

I have what I have cos I like it, what else needs to be said?

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1441287901' post='2857576']
I doubt many punters would know the difference between my £50 Jazz Bass copy and my 1970's Fender Precision. They are both the same colour and to their ears (and mine) both sound the same. A muso in the audience might, but would they really care that much? As long as it sounds ok and is in tune only a "gear snob" would worry surely?
[/quote]

I have to agree. Besides which, the quality of cheap instruments today is shocking good.

Edit - Also, I've sold many instruments to many beginners and parents buying for their kids. Selling the virtues of tone rarely gains much traction. Parents look at the bottom line, and kids look at what's cool/pretty.

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1441287932' post='2857577']
I have what I have cos I like it, what else needs to be said?
[/quote]

Well there are people who say that they're tools of the trade, and a builder wouldn't go on site with a Lidl drill, so why should they go on stage with, for example, an SX?

Edited September 3, 2015 by MiltyG565

[bonzodog]

I get frustrated most of the time on here because a lot of the conversations are about gear I can only dream of. I don't blame anyone for spending a lot of money on gear. I have a young family and am the sole earner so I made my bed so to speak.

I play cheap JHS vintage basses through a hartke amp and TC cabs. All of them considered to be at the budget end of the spectrum but in 20 years of playing I have had lots of compliments about my playing but no one has ever mentioned my gear.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1441289053' post='2857590']
I get frustrated most of the time on here because a lot of the conversations are about gear I can only dream of. I don't blame anyone for spending a lot of money on gear. I have a young family and am the sole earner so I made my bed so to speak.

I play cheap JHS vintage basses through a hartke amp and TC cabs. All of them considered to be at the budget end of the spectrum but in 20 years of playing I have had lots of compliments about my playing but no one has ever mentioned my gear.
[/quote]

That's awesome! There are tone-hounds and gear-snobs out there, and they would quite disparage going on stage with budget gear, but the important thing is that you're bringing music to people, and enjoying it. Minor differences in tone are irrelevant, as many won't notice or even care, and in fact, it's hard to tell what the differences are when you play with a full band.

[cheddatom]

Different gear makes different sounds. Some people are happy restricted to one sound, but I like a lot of variety. So, I have a few guitars, basses, pedals, amps, and other instruments. None of them are expensive, but if I wanted to make a sound and the only way to do it was to spend loads of money (which is a highly unlikely situation) then I'd do it.

[lowhand_mike]

i feel better owning nice stuff, i know its not going to make me play any better, it might sound a bit better IMO
each to their own i guess

if your tools do the job you need then thats enough, doesnt stop us lusting after pretty things though

Edited September 3, 2015 by lowhand_mike

[Bilbo]

It's all part of the game, isn't it? I have been mostly a one bass man for 29 years now and have always said that one decent professional instrument (ie one that works consistently) and one adequate amp is pretty much all you need.

Trouble is, I am now in a slightly different space. I wanted to try some new ideas so got a 7-string bass. I also think that, if you want to slap (which I have never really bothered with), you need a fretted (my 29 year bass is fretless). My double bass amp is ok for electric for the bollocks I do but I am aware that it has shortcomings at higher volumes so I should think about getting a second, meatier amp. I have a Gibson ES175 but it doesn't do rock guitar sounds so I bought a 335 (copy). I like my nylon acoustic but my steel string is about to fall apart. And so it all starts again.

I agree that the 'graphite nut' brigade are anoraks but there are certainly some distinctions that matter more than others. P vs. J is not one that I ever noticed but fretted vs fretless, 5-strings for low Bs, double vs. electric etc; some of these are now industry standard.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441288304' post='2857581']
Well there are people who say that they're tools of the trade, and a builder wouldn't go on site with a Lidl drill, so why should they go on stage with, for example, an SX?
[/quote]

Because the Lidl drill is not up to the job of being used by a professional builder, but an SX bass is up to the job of going on stage?

[dand666]

All professionals want it reliability that's it. Most professional musicians don't care what effects/instruments they use, as long as it's serving the purpose that they are using it for.

[Beedster]

I often hear musos spouting the likes of "If Macca/Flea/Squire/Lee played it, it would sound great whoever made it...", but I'm none of those guys, and I've found that I get more compliments on my tone when I'm playing through decent gear. Also, having spent the first 10-15 years of what I laughingly call my "musical career" playing through gear that I had to play for financial reasons, now that I can afford to, I enjoy playing through gear I choose to play.

In short, I'm with Discreet

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441287545' post='2857574']
I'm quite sure it does not - but it certainly makes a difference to me.
[/quote]

[MiltyG565]

It seems that most of you are saying that it's generally just an act of hedonistic consumerism. Interesting.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441289875' post='2857605']
Because the Lidl drill is not up to the job of being used by a professional builder, but an SX bass is up to the job of going on stage?
[/quote]

Who says it isn't up to the job? It's not about the drill, If you can get a job done with it, that's what matters, is it not?

[cheddatom]

My mate bought a fancy gibson acoustic guitar. I laughed at him because it cos him £2000 or so and I thought this was a ridiculous amount of money for a guitar. I've played a lot of acoustics, and in my opinion anything mid range and up by yamaha, martin, taylor etc are pretty good. They each sound different, but you can get one you like that plays really well for £500

Anyway, I played this Gibson and while the feel was no better than other guitars I'd played, the sound was distinctly better. There is more low end produced by this guitar than any other acoustic I've ever tried. So, if I had £2000 spare, I'd get one

[CamdenRob]

I get far great enjoyment out of playing through my current set up than I did playing the gear I had when I first started I undoubetdly sound better than I did through the ropey squire P and HH amp I had back then...

I now have a set up gives me exactly the tone i'm looking for... I find I concentrate more on my playing now I'm satisfied with how my gear sounds

[Lw.]

I don't think there's any new information in the video but I suppose it might spell things out for some people.

Once your equipment is up to basic audio standards & allows you to hear yourself whilst playing, buying anything else is just to make yourself feel better & massage your ego a bit.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1441290549' post='2857623']
My mate bought a fancy gibson acoustic guitar. I laughed at him because it cos him £2000 or so and I thought this was a ridiculous amount of money for a guitar. I've played a lot of acoustics, and in my opinion anything mid range and up by yamaha, martin, taylor etc are pretty good. They each sound different, but you can get one you like that plays really well for £500

Anyway, I played this Gibson and while the feel was no better than other guitars I'd played, the sound was distinctly better. There is more low end produced by this guitar than any other acoustic I've ever tried. So, if I had £2000 spare, I'd get one
[/quote]

I think it's entirely unjustifiable today to spend £2,000 on an acoustic guitar. The sheer quality of some instruments at the £500 mark is incredible (check out Faith Naked series - absolutely beautiful!). There are low-key artists out there who play signature Farida guitars and basses, and they're far from Gibson money, but they sound great. And besides all that, the punters in the local pub still don't care about the minutia of tone, so setting aside issues of tone, why do we do it? Why do we laugh at some entry-level gear, when that could be what spawns a great career for a great musician?

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441290448' post='2857618']
Who says it isn't up to the job? It's not about the drill, If you can get a job done with it, that's what matters, is it not?
[/quote]

One factor is how long the drill will last when it's being used on a daily basis. It's not just one job, but perhaps a lot of jobs. The same would apply to an unreliable bass that failed a lot, but I don't think this happens with many cheaper basses.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Annoying Twit

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1441290869' post='2857627']
I get far great enjoyment out of playing through my current set up than I did playing the gear I had when I first started I undoubetdly sound better than I did through the ropey squire P and HH amp I had back then...

I now have a set up gives me exactly the tone i'm looking for... I find I concentrate more on my playing now I'm satisfied with how my gear sounds
[/quote]

I know a guy who regularly buys very expensive gear, and gets bored of it, sells it, and buys something equally as pricey. For a while, he had this great little Squier Strat that he bought used for £80. Honestly, it wasn't going to win world's greatest guitar, but all he used it for was a bit of teaching a playing at home (He didn't have a band or record songs). He was talking about it one day, and he said "I'm going to change this soon. I prefer my guitars not to be made from plywood". I tried to tell him that his guitar was legitimately made from timber, like any Fender or Gibson, but his pre-conceived notions about the name on the headstock wouldn't allow him to believe it.

I have played guitars and thought "Christ, is that me playing?". It's a great way to stroke one's own ego, simply to have an instrument that accentuates the best qualities of your playing. It's also important to have an instrument that you feel comfortable playing. Is that why we do it? Egotistical w***ery?

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441291377' post='2857636']
One factor is how long the drill will last when it's being used on a daily basis. It's not just one job, but perhaps a lot of jobs. The same would apply to an unreliable bass that failed a lot, but I don't think this happens with many cheaper basses.
[/quote]

I think you're right in saying it doesn't really happen. We all know that the electronics in these things are often so simple that they could have been designed by a radio repair engineer in the 50s...

[Beer of the Bass]

For the fairly light duty gigging most of us do, cheaper electric guitars or basses can do just fine, but I think if I were a pro with a heavy touring or recording schedule I'd want to spend a little more - perhaps not crazy boutique stuff, but certainly something at the level of a Fender or Musicman, the more no-frills end of small UK luthiers or even some of the better mid-range Korean instruments. There are all kinds of little things which crop up with heavy use, like the softer fretwire used on many cheaper instruments, or the quality of the electronics and tuners. These things can be upgraded of course, but not everyone likes to spend time tinkering with their gear.

[discreet]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441291377' post='2857636']
One factor is how long the drill will last when it's being used on a daily basis. It's not just one job, but perhaps a lot of jobs. The same would apply to an unreliable bass that failed a lot, but I don't think this happens with many cheaper basses.
[/quote]

Especially if it's P-Bass or one of its derivatives - they have few parts and there is little to go wrong!